red diesel totally off topic

[carlisletiger]

a friend has been running a fiesta on red diesel. his mot expired yesterday (unbeknown to him) so he was wondering does red diesel affect the emissions? will he need to empty the tank of red before it goes in for its test?

[snapper]

As far as I know, Derv, is derv although the red stuff is probably at at the lower end of the quality scale. The red bit of it is the dye put in to diferentiate between derv that is subject to HMRC's fuel tax swindle and derv that is free from tax.

It all comes from the same tank in the refinery (as does most, if not all fuels these days) and they add the dye (along with any other additives) when it's dispensed into the the tanker.

Will the mot pick it up? don't know. Will the road side checks done by HMRC and the Police pick it up? Yes, and then followeth a whole world of poo....

[Dannyboy]

It does affect emmisions(our lasses dad is an MOT tester.) as the dye burns off and creates more "smoke" as it were and that useually how the 5o know who to pull, we have plenty of red at work and i have used it myself but wouldnt do it regularly.

[PaulHooligan]

Nicked from another forum

"Having worked for a fuel oil company for years I can tell you that the difference between DERV (road fuel) and Red Diesel is that RD has dye in it but also has less lubricants, and no additives or other detergents added. The reason being cost. Oil companies don't waste their additive packages on fuel which is in the main going to be burned in industrial heating systems, and a small percent used in agriculture.

And being caught with it (or traces of it) in your tank will mean HMRC will take your arse out with the unpaid duty on the fuel they believe you've used, and the cost of the car isn't really relevant, nor is the fact that you don't get it back. Your vehicle is siezed and forfeited, but you can apply through the Courts to have it returned if you choose. If you get caught with red diesel in your tank, you've committed a criminal offence (tax evasion) and will be prosecuted if the need arises. They can claim duty on fuel for up to 7 years previous and the onus is on you to prove otherwise. Bear this in mind aswell..."If your conduct involves dishonesty, a penalty of up to 100% of the duty evaded may be imposed."

So, you risk losing your vehicle (as in not getting it back), a penalty of £250 for each offence (so that would be each time you drove the vehicle will red diesel in it), repayment of the unpaid duty, a fine equal to the unpaid duty, an unlimited fine and a stay in jail for up to 2 years if you decide to obstruct the officer inspecting your fuel, and finally "In the more serious cases involving dishonesty criminal action may be taken, and you can be fined an unlimited amount or you may be imprisoned for up to seven years, or both."
Worth noting aswell that all (agricultural vehicles aside) DVLA-licensed vehicles must always use fully duty paid fuel, both on and off public roads. So if it has a tax disk on it and has red diesel in it, you're committing an offence, regardless of what you're doing with the vehicle.

As an example.... they take a reasonable guess as to how much diesel you've not paid duty on. Reasonable to them, mind. Might have no bearing on how much you've actually used. If your 3 year old vehicle has 100k miles on it, and you've had it from new, then they could reasonably argue that you owed duty on all the fuel you used in those 3 years to cover 100k miles.

That works out at eg.: 40mpg = 2500 gallons = 11350ltrs @ ~65p duty per ltr. Which works out at £7377.50

Of course, you'd have to prove otherwise if you could. "

Just as a pointer it would seem if you get caught youre in a world of deep doodoo

[Drift]

Paul has it spot on

And red is exactly the same as normal diesel just has a dye in it, also I have found out the dye does not coat the workings of the system its purely for ID purposes and contains a chemical trace but nothing more sinister.
It may just not have as many additives in it that are added to the fuel when it gets to the tanker to the customer specs be it ESSO, ASDA, TESCO or Shell.
Each customer have their own additive requirement.

If I had used it on the road I wouldnt be admitting it

[john boy]

Red is not as refined as derv. It is not an mot fail but it may struggle to pass the emissions test. Used to get pajs from farmers using it and it needed a right good blast prior to test. But be warned you get caught they go back as long as you've had the vehicle lad st works brother in law hot caught and cost him over £7000

[dt1968]

just to add...the only thing that is stained by the red dye,, is the inside of the fuel filter ! it definately isnt picked up on a mot test either.... and just for interest... they vosa/ministry cannot detect it as they drive behind you using a sniffer device as ive heard lol.
vosa. ministry have many ways of catching you with it, they have the right to enter your property to gain access to a vehicle they believe (tipped off ) may be using red diesel. they can use force to remove a locking fuel cap,, they can interupt a fuel supply to an engine.. but the most chosen method to test for it nowadays is to swab the tail pipe with a cotton bud and immediateley annalize it
strangeley enough tho,, if your vehicle is on your driveway and has a full tank of something naughty, they can only dip it or test for red if that vehicle has a current tax disc !!! or has been seen by them on the road !!!

[woodwizzard]

I don't know what is or isn't in red, but when I started using it in my old 2.8 when it was off the road it certainly smoked more than white diesel.

[drinksoptional]

I thought the dye made the filter red aswell as leaving a a red trace in system the end of the day with current fule prices it going to become more common for alternative fuels to be used the price of cooking yer chips will go up with cooking oil sitting at 1.39pltr. looking at that write up above think i would stay awya from the red an use bio diesel or veg/cooking oil

[Wilberforce]

[4x4 bobby]

Were allways sending out recovery for HMRC to pick up vehicle's caught with Red dye in there tanks! Oh dear lots of money to pay the TAX man!!! It take a long time to get rid of the trace aswell.

[james'll fix it]

didn't know his mot expired???
its normally around twelve months since the last one I believe
found out after a little tug from the law did he?

[BadBoy]

[woodwizzard]

Don't think it had more than 20 litres go through it Paul, and it started smoking almost immediately. I thought the exhaust smelt abit different aswell.

[john boy]

If i remember right there was some sort of scam not so long back mixing southern ireland's equivelent which is or was green with or red and the dyes counter acted and turned it to clear or somert like that.

[JEOH]

Off topic - or not? It is a Ford Fiesta and a Diesel...



In 1987, the 1600ccm Diesel by Klöckner Humboldt Deutz was quite rare in such small cars like Ford Fiesta. I do remember during my trip through Norway this dialog at a gas-station. Me starting fueling the car. Clerk running out of his office, yelling: "Diesel, Diesel!". My answer, in a downcalmig voice: "Diesel!" - then doubting the clerk "Diesel?" ... thinking ... "Ah, Diesel!".

[Drift]

We had one as a works run around, it was knackered and always on the go, it never broke down though and it took a serious hammering. (it was white )

[Roo]

Just out of curiosity, I know curiosity kills cats but I aint a cat ..
So would the MOT tester have to report that to anyone, but farm trucks would run on red Diesel wouldn't they?

Cheers
Roo

[Big Dav]

As 4x4 bobby mentions, you only have to put red diesel into a tank once and it takes many, many fills to dilute the dye trace.

[manny]

as my m8 works for vosa it can take upto a 1000l before the trace is gone and they dont look at the colour of the fuel anymore
they can tell by a smoke test if its on red or not. they dont use the same smoke tests as mot. i ask because a m8 was going run a landy on red in a second tank we had worked it all out so he could press a button and go from red to white but if he got pulled they could tell so thats were we stopped