Bio, WVO, SVO etc etc

[RatCav]

[BoxCleva]

2.5 VM
I did several thousand miles on bio in the 2.5 VM. Ran perfectly, no obvious loss of performance. I know that a lot of people were chucking fltered WVO into their Scorpio's with the same engine with no issues. I looked at it in very simple financial terms.
Cost of a second hand pump - £100
Set of injectors - £80 - £120
Fuel saving in the first month - £180.
Before the rear axle went pop I ran it for 6 months virtually exclusively on Bio. I reckon my total fuel saving in that period was approx £900 (which is £500 more than I paid for the car) so for me it was a no brainer !

3.1 Troop

I bought the 3.1 Trooper because I specifically wanted a simple engined 4x4 that could run Bio, and from all the research I did the Trooper 3.1 came out as the best option. Waste oil (which is the base ingredient for Bio) has rocketed in price of late, so I pay 96p per litre, which isn't cheap but still a hell of a lot cheaper than diesel from the forecourt. I've only run two tanks of Bio through it as my supplier ceased production , but i've found another so i'll be using him in future.

Bio fuel itself is not all the same and can be a bit of a lottery. As with anything else join some of the bio forums and see if you can get a personal recommendation.

I know Yaki has run his 2.8 on Bio for much longer than I have and I would imagine the savings he has made would pay for his entire truck twice over.


EDIT: Just about the best resource I have found on the net > http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php

[Drift]

Just make sure that things are clear.
WVO= Waste Veg Oil and is the stuff you get from your local take aways and such like, generally filtered down to 1 micro by home enthusiasts (not professionals) and usually the only additives are Diesel or petrol.
This form can be problematic as you cant tell what the oil has been used for, if cooking meats animal fats can be an issue and contain water so the filtering needs to be methodical.

Then you have SVO = Straight Veg Oil, this is straight from the shop into your tank.

After thats there is Bio Fuel = professionally produced and certified Vegetable oils for fuel, this fuel has a more rigorous process of production not only using filters its heated spun and has octain enhancers and various other chemicals added to it.

Then there is forecourt plain old Diesel, but its not, all diesel sold by law must contain a minimum of 5% bio fuel and this usually consists of Rape seed oil.

The 4jb1 fuel pump is suitable for use of veg oils but the seals are prone to deterioration from the veg oil also the injectors should be recalibrated for best performance.

I would chance professionally made Boi fuel but none of the others (beside straight diesel of course).

[andytats]

[Hound Dog]

2.8 4jb1

I ran bio diesel which i bought from enfuels (http://www.enfuels.co.uk/) it ended up in costing me a new injection pump (thanks manny pumps still going well) as it destroyed the seals inside the pump and I still have the old one in the garage to remind me.
So I will be sticking to forecourt fuel.

[SIVY28]

im with boxcleva on this
best source of info is http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php they specialise in professional and home made biodiesel production and also straigh veg /waste veg info.

i am presently running a fronty 2.8 td and 2 x rover 75 cdt (common rail diesel)on 90 % home made bio . 1 has done 9000 miles so far no issues even through winter , as i winterize the bio . the other one has done around 4000 miles again no issues . filters changed after a month of first use as pipes get cleaned through with bio . I must point out there is more than just throwingsome caustic and methanol in with wvo and mixing ,to get to astm fuel standards certain procedures must be employed.

From the forums help and advice i have been able to build my own processor and filtering system , i get my oil in for around 35p per liter average 40p tops wvo (like golddust now so best you scource oil first ) roughly it costs 15ppl to make chemicals etc so 50ppl fuel grade bio , ido 180 litre batches takes a good day to produce then around a week to settle.

From this forum Ihave read concerns with the 2.8 (which i have ) but i have currently been running on my bio (90% )for nearly 2 months , no prolems yet , im willing to see i do need to change the fuel pipes (was leaking before the bio) so trying to find a bio friendley solution .

[BoxCleva]

Out of interest Nigel are you getting the oil direct from source (chippy/restaurant etc) or from a waste oil supplier ?

[SIVY28]

i was lucky fella sourced a catering rep who collects and sells the oil comes in 15 litre cubies 45 ppl clean and filtered , but i takes the whites they have too and swop them 2 for 1 good oil to someone off the forum so that brings the price down . i collect around 500 litres every 2 months off them
ive also got an indian resturant which gives me 60 litres - 2 months and another which gives me 80 litres same amount of time but this stuff varies in quality , but adds up to make it cheaper as its free . i think you just have to strive to build a supply then making a processor is worth while

i would be very careful with bio as some suppliers cut corners and leave glyc or methanol in or soaps which will destry fuel lines and pumps but there are tests for bio wich the forum has plenty of info

if your ever interested fella let me know and ill give you a hand no problem

[Soupstone]

2.2 dti x22dth

Currently running a VM 2.5 on 75% bio 25% diesel. Its a CRD though and in a Chrysler Voyager. 1600 miles, I've a couple of issues but dont think they're bio related.

I've also bought a Fronty 2.2 DTI a few weeks ago and the plan is to do the same with this. I'm well aware the VP44 is bad enough on diesel alone, but it's what it was (probably wrongly)bought for.
Was thinking of fitting some of the stuff from a twin tank setup (flat plate heat exchanger and a heated fuel filter) to make it as thin as possible after initial start. Perhaps larger bore fuel line to assist flow.
Failing that, perhaps fully twin tanking and running on waste veg oil after heating up on diesel.

I''ve got my eye on another 2.2 DTI locally, if it starts and runs (i.e the pumps ok) I'll probably buy it for spares. If the pump goes, i'll have a rethink.

If I find any seals that go, hopefully there will be viton replacements avaliable.

As far as supply goes, I've a chippy and a pub I get it from. Pay 20p a litre for the chip shop stuff, but it's excellent quality. Was previoulsy only putting it through a J-cloth, adding 10% petrol then straight into my MK3 Astra 1.7

[RatCav]

Out of interest does anyone know of places that sell Bio friendly seals for pumps?

Also it seems that the nearest place in East Anglia that sells Bio is Cambridge

[Hound Dog]

You could try diesel bob

[RatCav]

Have just emailed Diesel Bob

[hipo1024]

[BoxCleva]

I personally wouldn't entertain putting bio in a Dti for the same mathematical reason that I would put it in a 2.5 or 2.8.
2.5 fuel pump - £100 max second hand
Dti fuel pump - £600 minimum.

Doesn't stack up as well as a 2.5 or 2.8 when you look at it in those terms IMO.

But you pay your money and you take your chances

[hipo1024]

No im with u on that one, but Soupstone bought a dti to run it on bio so Im going to see how that pans out...who knows the pump might last longer on bio....dout it myself but you never know lol

[gregster]

I ran my 2.3td on neat vedgy oil purchased from the Costcutter shop in Eastchurch, when I found out that the petrol station that used to be there didnt have any diesel as they had run out...the nearest other garage being some 15 miles away, and the fuel gauge was hanging off the bottom of the scale.
Got some strange looks from passers by as I poured in the happy shopper super fuel in Eastchurch high street on a saturday afternoon...

Gotta say it ran fine, and smelt wonderfully of doughnuts cooking at the exhaust...worked out quite a bit cheaper too, apart from the smell of doughnuts cooking made me want to buy doughnuts, which leaving by the seaside is easy enough as there is a great little doughnut place down the promenade, so over all I spent more than regular diesel when you factor the cost of the doughnuts into the equation.
After this I bought catering tins from a friend who runs a cafe down the road, used to 50/50 mix of diesel to cooking oil, and spend all the savings (and more) on doughnuts.
When it got colder in winter things started to go wrong...firstly I dunked the truck in about 10ft of water...thankfully it floated, but the electrics suffered somewhat, then I think the fuel was congealing and it broke down a couple of times as the fuel filters were clogged up with gunge, and most seriously the doughnut shop closed for the winter, meaning that I went though doughnut cold turkey as Tescos who also sell them is miles away.

Summary...I screwed the truck up, became dependant on doughnuts, spent most of any savings made on doughnuts, but over the few months I probably saved a few pounds, but sadly not as many as I put on!

[sadlotus]

Hi all, esp Mr Gregster, there aren't many references to running a 2.3 on straight veggie oil on here, but recently I've become more interested. I've been running mine - with no apparent drawbacks at all - on 100% JetA1, but that source has stopped forever now. I'd like to try svo from the shops but vaguely remember that the tank pump doesn't like it - the injection pump is Bosch and from all accounts is fine with the stuff. The engine, being the old Bedford Ambulance engine seems (slow) and tough enough. How long did you run yours for? Even 50/50 Dino diesel and svo would offset some of the cost. Any advice or suggesions?
150,000 miles workhorse that seems to just jog throughout the mots (Mmm, maybe shouldn't have said that)

[manny]

The fuel pump seals are the problem they need to be nylon a lot of older pump are rubber seals bio fuel eats the rubber seals you can have most fuel pump converted to nylon seal.
My mate just hit 200,000 miles in his peugeot 306 1.9td on veg oil/ chip fat in 6year.
He has gone all out with a in tank heater and inline heater and make all his fuel him self he has not payed a peny in fuel for fuel in 6year

[Soupstone]

Wee update whilst the threads been revived. The Frontera never turned a wheel on diesel, far less bio, and is long gone. Replaced by an Audi 80 that loves anything you throw in it. CRD still going strong some 8k later, been 100% bio for around 6k of those.

Manny, the GIXXER was great