HHO generator, fuel from water

[Krusher]

This could well be a sticky topic but has anyone ever thought about the possibility of running an HHO generator on their Fronty?

An HHO generator is a device that can produce hydrogen gas by releasing it via electrolisis from water.

Well I have been doing a fair bit of research in to this and have built a prototype to test the theory. So far it seems to work and with a bit of
fine tuning and fettling I reckon could save me some money on my fuel bills. How much money I will save if any, time will tell but I think its worth
a try. I have posted up a short clip of the prototype working, as you will see it does churn out the gas so all I need to do is build one that can push out a bit more gas and also be able to cope with the under bonnet environment.

Once this is done I will let you know if there are any increases in MPG.

Oh yes forgot to mention, the prototype is not connected to the car apart from power from the battery.

[bobbinsjob]

very interesting Kel, keep us informed

[4x4 bobby]

Looks like a good Idea if you can get it to work better mate !

[Drift]

From what Ive read it can prove false economy, to produce energy, energy itself has to be used.

This system depends on electrical energy to provide fuel to power the engine, the electrical energy is in turn produced by the engine itself and as we all know the more electrical items a car uses the more fuel it uses especially old cars like ours, so you can produce the extra fuel but you will use fuel to produce it, if you see what I mean.

You dont get anything for nothing.

I wouldnt be to keen about going offroad with it being volatile though.

Just my view on the subject

[Krusher]

[john boy]

I've seen this on a smart car at work it does work, but the goon left it switched on overnight fired it up in the morning it blew the inlet manifold off the engine,shattered the rear screen and set all the car alarms off in his street

[Ruathar]

As Drift has pointed out, unless you can find a way to mae it more than 100% efficient it will cost more fuel than it generates. As energy is a constant in any reaction it is not possible to create more energy than you put in (you will loose energy through heat, vibration of the engine, sound etc etc).

The other problems are that it is illegal to fit any gass appliance to your car without being qualified, it invalidates the insurance, the MOT, and as it produces hydrogen in an uncontrolled manor it breaks many road safety laws with regards to the generation, transportaon and use of hazardous materials.

As strange as it sounds I actually wish something like this would work, but HHO generators are snake oil and always will be.

[Road Hog]

An oblique googly,you cannot take a gas generator on a ferry,

[gvs]

Hi,
I'm a newbie on this forum but I actually came accross it looking for HHO related facts.
I had a fronty years ago and to be hnest I never thought of going back to one until I read some of the topics on here, especially thid time of year one could come in handy.
I spend my time fitting some of the best tuning systems money can buy after spending thousands and thousands on finding the right gizmos to put on some of my toys to make them better.
I run a company in the northeast of england and my main concentration is on making vehicles more environmentally friendly.
If I'm not doing that then I'm remapping vehicles for economy and performance, sometimes even race maps on track cars ( yes I know that isnt environmentally friendly as there burning lots more fuel but hey you have to have a little fun)
I'm currently working on a VW beetle 1972 which is comming on quite well. It's going to be running on at least 60% hydrogen or HHO.
We have actually got to the point of it running on HHO alone for over 2 hours but only ticking over, the HHO gas is to volitile to run the engine alone when upping the revs.

Anyway I saw the forum and had a quick look through the HHO thread, one of many I see every day with the same old questions and answers.
Quite interesting as they all are.
Quite a lot of people are becomming more educated on the subject now and there is more and more threads popping up all the time.
2-3 years ago there were very few people interested in using HHO on their vehicle but due to the cost of fuel going up there are more and more interested every day.
There is only one problem !
99% of the HHO run your car on water sites are scams or want to be's.
They are people who have seen the systems and thought they might dabble and try their own to save money.
well on a good note some actually work and work quite well. On a bad note I've bought most of the systems out there on the likes of ebay and other sites and tested them to find theres always a floor.
They all seem to work in the beginning but either dont perform or they last 5 mins then fail.

There are lots of skeptics out there too who just think because of the laws of phisics on paper they cannot work and dont work full stop or they have bought one of the above mentioned systems and found they have been ripped off so they now think that every system out there is rubbish and a scam.
Yes I have read all these foums and found them very interesting and ammusing as the chit chat goes from one person to the other.
Anyway the systems out there that have any chance of working are built properly, they have carfully calculated + and - terminals with correct ammount of surface area each side as this affects the different levels of Hydrogen and oxygen (get this wrong and there will be negative affects, just because it is producing gas dosent mean it is the right dosage)

The system has to be fed into the engine correctly, anywhere in the intake just wont do.
the whole system has to draw low as possible amps and as much gas as possible to have any chance of working due to energy used.
The system dosent work on energy conversion alone as if it did it would be a fail due to ebergy losses and laws of physics.
The system actually works by making the fuel used in the engine more efficient this in turn means less needed to produce same effect thus saving fuel.
Because the HHO gas burns better and burning almost all the fuel rather then only say 40% of it then the emissions are greatly reduced.
Since the fuel is more evenly burnt and more of it burnt then there is less carbon left to dirty the engine hence it runs cleaner.

Back to the above.
I have been fitting systems to vehicles for 1 month short of 2 years now and I have had good results and bad, more on the good result side I use one of the only systems available in the uk that is 90% insurance approved (infact they are soon to have an option on their database)
The DVLA now recognise the system and even allow a tax reduction on most vehicles registered between the 1st march 2001 to the present, its only about £20 but its a start.
I have documentation to change the vehicle to a BI-FUEL vehicle on the logbook.
There is quite a bit of paperwork involved with each installation but to have any system on a vehicle in the uk it has to have the documents, otherwise the system will and has been proven to invalidate your insurance full stop.
As for the ferrys, because the system we use has 3 built in safety features (that good that you never get past the first) we can use the system on a ferry unlike LPG or other diy HHO systems.
I know this as I have crossed the channel and showed the system (being that the van had HYDROGEN wrote in large letters along both sides so hard to get away with) but on showing the documents then this was passed.
The main reason being is that these systems are HHO on demand and should only work if the engine is running. When the engine is running the gas is used up instantly.
There is no storage or any pressureised part of the system where the gas is involved, unlike LPG or even fully HYDROGEN HYBRIDS.
I will not advertise the system I use or fit to vehicles but if anyone wants to chat further then just PM me and we can talk.
I opperate in the northeast and have people from all over the UK come to see me to have a system fit although there are 28 of us work for the same company and are approved installers in the network I have a good reputation for fitting and adapting to most vehicles.
I know one of the other installers has already fitted a Frontera with HHO systems and had good results.
By the look of it although I havent fitted a fronty myself I can safely say it dosent look like the hardest to fit with all that space under the bonnet.

I hope this is a help to those dabbling in the HHO field, if you are going to make your own make sure you do your research first.
anything that looks like a bottle or mason jar is only old hat and will damage your engine. Always use DRYCELL technology they run cooler and dont force steam into your intake manifold like the jars do. (FACT)... Steam is bad, engines and oil dont like it and mixed with that steam will be KOH (potassium Hydroxide, known to rot metal. In the event of a boilover where a coil type or wet cell gets too hot then it will be in your intake in seconds.

[bobbinsjob]

[king of the kitchen]

,,,very interesting,,,,this is the way forward,,,,

[Krusher]

Hi GVS

Have you got any piccies of your systems and any figures/results ???

[N1ova]

Interesting reading.

[Drift]

[dave21478]

Hydrogen LOL's.

Whist I am not necessarily implying this to anyone here....Frankly I would not trust the majority of the public to plumb in a replacement washing machine, never mind an alternative vehicle fuel system that uses an incredibly flammable gas. Drift is right to ask for credentials from those pushing this sort of thing.

In well over 100 years of innovation to the internal combustion engine, nobody has got any real, workable, PROVABLE gains from this sort of thing on a commercial basis, which says a lot more to me than some people on the internet with lash-ups of plumbing supplies under their bonnets doing God knows what.....

[gvs]

Hi,
As I said in my last or as it be first post, there are lots of skepticism about HHO and as explained I see it everyday in many forums.
There are good ones and bad ones (unfortunaltly more bad then good).
The device is safe for normal road or cruising marine use but off road it would cause a few issues.
Saying that it would be fine while on the road but as soon as you go off road I would turn unit off and have water level at a low before performing any off road fun.

We have many good results with the systems we fit and there is a governing body developed for this.
We have insurance approved status and Compliance from the DVLA to have it registered.
The manufactures of the system are and have been in talks with VOSA for testing over the last year and getting closer to having a status. This status will be one of the first of its type ever after so many companies have failed in the past.

You mention why if this technology is so good that it hasnt worked well for over 100 years, well that is because only until recently the system or the way the technology has been developed has had several floors that were never fixed, these systems are available just like the plans to make them all over for as little as 99p or even free. (there is a reason for this, that is because they have as much chance of working as our present government)

I myself started fitting these as trial only and if the owner of the vehicle was happy then they can pay for it after 14 days. I have only had to remove one system so far and that was because I should have known better as the van it was fitted to had almose every mod possible and it never had a chance. (HID lights, performance remap, lots of flashy lights, a driver who thinks he was on a race track all the time, carrying over a ton as standard and other factors)
It wasnt that it didnt work but for the fact it was going to cost £699 and he was only getting a max of 6% gains, meaning it did work but to him who wasnt prepared to change his ways it wouldnt be worth it and buying £699 worth of diesel would ave been the better option.

Others have reported on constant use with same driving conditions and miles covered that they get between 20 and 36% gains. Never a negative result.

Infact I've been busy the last wek or so fixing frozen systems due to this cold weather which cought us all off guard.
Luckily there is a simple fix in the design which means if it goes below -10 then the seals pop to let out the expanding ice so save the other components from being damaged.
Due to this happening I had calls to say my milage has gone down and there must be a problem please can you check the system over. (same issues were to most of the systems the last couple of weeks)
There is a solution to combat this but because the cold came very quick this year the usual advisory email was beaten by the cold so damage was done.
using Isopropyl Alcohol (Rubbing Alcohol) the system can be saved from freezing and still work ok.

I think I'm a fair person and haven't used forums to advertise my company and will continue to not mention any names. If anyone wants to know these then I would answer any pm's.
I would also like to point out that I would be frownd upon by using names without the consent of the companies involved due to the many previous arguments on forums for the for and against sides and views people have.
All I can say is that there are people out there who read so much rubbish that they think they know everything yet when asked if they have tried a system there answer is usually no. All I can say is that no matter what vehicle I use or own it will always have a system fitted if it can be done so to anyone who is prepared to put the technology down the at least try it first before trying to argue the point.

I would like to fit a system to a Fronty once the weather gets a little better.

I would also like ot appologise for my speling and typing as I'm rubbish and my sausage fingers are very clombsey.

[gregster]

This seems like a more feasible solution to me...

[jpbiketransport]

I personly dont see great advantages of this but if people are getting gains of 20-36% Then who are any of us to dismiss the idea completely without really knowing a lot about it or ever trying it, Ok so it might not have worked 50+ years ago but things really have moved on since then, 100ish years ago people didn't think the motor car would amount to anything and they were wrong. Personly i dont really see the point in it as it doesn't replace the need for fossil fuels it just might delay them running out, I dont think sience is quite there yet with this system but it may well be in the near future Or it might not, But just because sience cant explane it doesn't meen it wont work
Techincally a plane should not fly because its to heavy and its wings are to small So should planes be dismissed because science says it wont work??

[Drift]

Ermmm physics

[jpbiketransport]