Technical help and advice wanted please?

[lloyd]

Absolutely no issues. I am keeping a close eye on coolant levels but they haven't changed at all. I've driven a few hundred miles with all seeming to be fine so far.

[fogman]

do the manufactures of k seal recommend taking the car for a good drive [ in your case 30 miles or so lloyd ] to seal the gasket after adding it ?

[lloyd]

[fogman]

ok cheers mate

[lloyd]

Another 40 miles of standstill Bristol commuter traffic and still coolant level the same chaps.

[Wneiljohnson47]

I hope you dont mind me butting in here. I have read most of the thread but I have been away from this forum for a while I sort of got in after the problem has been "fixed" I have stripped one of these engines down twice thanks to a broken timing belt tensioner. I have spare used timing belt guides and belts with no damage.... but I wouldnt use them!!! (so why have I kept them )

I think from memory at the rear of the engine there is a combined "manifold" it holds a temperature sensor in one chamber and some exhaust recirculation valve thingy in a seperate chamber. It is bolted to the back of the head and sealed with a gasket.... possibly weeping across the two chambers. This would lead to the water loss and the water vapour in the exhaust system and the "air" in the cooling system.. possibly exhaust gas!

The water pump is not an issue as it is driven by the toothed timing belt not the alternator belt and is tensioned by the timing belt tensioner... if it slips believe me you would not drive the car for more than a few hundred yards followed by a very large repair bill. The pump itself is cheap and is worth replacing whenever the timing belt is changed. (If it leaks the water cannot find its way into the sump pan because it is sealed by the oil pump mounting flange. The Timing belt chamber is supposed to be free from oil and in fact many VX show car engines leave part of the timing cover off altogether (anodised timing belt pulleys are very pretty)
The alternator belt also drives aircon pump and power steering pump from the crank shaft outside the the timing cover and runs over its own belt tensioner. and idler system. It is a ribbed belt and not toothed like the timing belt. It is easy enough to change, idler pulleys sound dreadful when the bearings are going... if you remove it make sure you know the path it takes first.. it is not easy to work it out afterwards!

The "sealer" added to the radiator works by finding small gaps to "fill" and sort of seal. It doesnt block the radiator or other passages aslong as the pump flow is efficient and the passage ways are clean and the water system is filled with properly concentrated anti freeze. (It will permanently block already restricted channels in dirty radiators and heater matrices) A flush of the system and replacing the anti freeze at the correct service intervals is also a good idea (anti freeze has a life span like brake fluid and engine oil)... When you flush the system you almost certainly remove the "sealed bit" at the same time so it will be necessary to replace the "fixer??" or fix the leak at some time.

Seems like you have a cheap but somewhat temporary fix! however in order to fix the blown gasket it may be necessary to remove the head to remove the rear manifold!!! Thereby requiring a new head gasket (Kit includes rear end gasket) new stretch bolts and probably a skim off the head!!! (Took me around 6 hours (the second time ) to strip down and refit.. not including the time to change and reseat the 16 bent valves and you would need a proper timing pulley locking tool... cheap plastic looking thing but invaluable if you dont want to bend any valves.

Hope this all helps but I wont be offended if you tell me to MMOB!!

Happy Frontera Driving

[fogman]

out of interest lloyd did your hoses pressurise before you added k seal & do they now when your up to normal running temp ?

cheers for the input neil the more heads the better mate

[N1ova]

How is the k seal going?As i think i might have the dreaded head gasket failure .Its only done 50k with full vauxhall service history.And do you know if a proper gm headgasket would be better than a oem one?cheers Adrian

[lloyd]

Well, the hoses pressurise now, now sure about before. Last night at midnight I ran the car warm before going to bed so it would be less frosted this morning. I set off at eight am and after one mile the temp guage went off the scale and the heater...well....didn't. The coolant had vanished. No emulsification, no sign of leaks, no steam from the exhaust, and the engine didn't appear overly warm. Added two pints of coolant to bring the level back up and now it's fine again??????????????????

[fogman]

[lloyd]

This just keeps rattling round in my head because I still am not convinced the h/g has gone. I'm not in denial, but prior to a problem I smell coolant. That tells me there is a leak but I can't locate one. I have no emulsification anywhere, oil level is fine. Thermostat replaced. Pipes are tight when hot. As coolant is topped up there are no issues. And the engine runs smoothly with normal power output.

My problem surely is coolant loss?


I need a compression test done on the cooling system to sort this.

[fogman]

i can tell you lloyd i felt exactly the same, although my h/g failed before this time im loosing a lot less water & i was convinced that something else had failed, ive done all the checks that you have, i even bypassed my heater matrix hoping that a leak in that was the problem & like you when you added the k seal i thought that had solved it but 1 day later the coolant level in the rad was low again so i reconnected the matrix ive also changed the pump but despite all that im still in the same boat as you.

as ive said before you wont always get mayo in the oil, that depends on where the gasket has failed ! ! the white smoke that appears when the lump is up to running temp is the water that your loosing through the water jacket

a compression test will tell you for sure 1 way or the other, i wish you luck mate

[lloyd]

Well, I think it's case closed. This evening working on a theory of airlocks I removed radcap and thought I'd run it warm and as bubbles emerged I'd top up. Didn't get the chance. From cold I had thick frothy bubbles (think washing up liquid) emerging from the still cold rad. (It's minus three and this was within one minute). The froth continued until the cooling fans cut in about five minutes later. There was no room to top up the coolant, so I'm thinking the exhaust gasses are indeed emerging through the cooling system as was recently suggested. Someone please suggest I'm misguided as I can't afford this right now...........

[fogman]

[lloyd]

can't tell. compression test Weds............................


(Edited to update)........Head gasket failure now confirmed. All in, it'll be between £450 and £550 depending what he finds.

[lloyd]

On refitting the head gasket he noticed a fractured cam. The estimate has now risen to £1000.00 all in, groan.

[Drift]

Thats a bit on the steep side

[fogman]

[lloyd]

Well, that includes removal of head, skim and test, new belt set and pulleys, refit inc. timing etc, coolant, labour and now a new camshaft too so I guess it aint too bad but it's money I don't have. Almost makes me regret selling my last vehicle, sixth in a row of Landy Defenders. The last was 25 years old and you wouldn't countenance a head gasket blowing, much less the cam fracturing at 32000 miles up.

Mind you a wing might fall off......

[fogman]