Restarting 'dead' diesel engine with 'Easy Start'

[Retro Pedro]

I'm putting this post in General discussion because it's Kia Sedona related rather than Frontera - hope this is OK.
Having said that it may be of assistance to diesel engined motors.
Up to January of this year, my other run around motor was a Kia Sedona 2.9 diesel.
About a year ago it started having overheating problems by means of pressure building up back through the expansion tank which resulted in overheating. Advise from mechanic nephew was it could be an airlock in the system or blown head gasket. Didn't have any evidence of water and oil mixture or white smoke coming out of exhaust pipe and motor still pulled like a train. So last December I thought I'd try the cheap fix and have a go at air lock/blockage fix first. Happened to have some XL800 (the strongest gear you put in central heating systems for flushing out) so I gave that a try. Should have only left in the car coolant system for a day but because it was so cold at the time I left in the engine system for 5 days up to when the engine stopped running.
Symptoms where that when the engine went up to about 2500 revs it would judder about like a misfire on a petrol engine. Then it would cut out when stopping at junctions. Finally it cut out and would not restart. Towed the car home and emptied the coolant system. Only about 3 litres of coolant came out when it should have up to the 12 litre mark. Thinking I had done the engine big time I left it parked up outside the house until I could either have a go and fix it or tow to the scrappers and weigh it in. It's a 2001 Y reg. so debatable whether it's worth having money spent on it.
Any how a couple of weeks ago I decided I would have a go and dismantle to see if it had cracked cylinder head and/or cracks in the piston liners or bent any con-rods due to water being sucked into cylinders.
Now bearing in mind that Sedona's are heavy motors (nearly 2.7 tonne) there are some serious large bolts holding it together. Also the engine is transverse with the timing belt end of the engine tight up against the off-side inner wing. You have to take the front wheel off and work from under the wheel arch to get the drive and timing belts off.
The bottom drive belt pulley is held on by the large 38mm crankshaft bolt that as a torque setting of 200nm when its tightened up. I made up metal wedge to stop the bottom pulley from turning as I tried to undo the bolt but it wasn't having any of it. Tried putting a long bar and socket on a turning the engine on the key but even that didn't crack it undone. Phoned nephew and he told me that in the work place they would have had it up on a ramp and got a scaffold bar on the socket bar and got it off that way. This left me with a problem because I've got the car on axle stands and not a lot of clearance for a scaffold pole.
At this point I decided to go and see the independant garage proprietor who done the timing belt 3 years ago when I first got the car to see if he would undo the bolt for a cash job. Glad I did because he does not do a lot of work these days and wasn't interested in undoing my bolt. But he did have a chat with me and gave me some sound advise which is where I'm going to with this post.
He explained that a diesel engine was basically fuel and compression. No matter what, if you have got both the engine will run. He explained that before I dismantle the engine and have the expense of gaskets, bolts, tensioners etc rebuidling, eliminate the fuel issue first. I knew I had fuel feeding the pump and I had undone the fuel pipe after the pump and got diesel through. His advise was to undo the fuel pipes on top of the injectors one at a time, about half a turn and crank the engine. If all was OK, diesel should be sperting out of each indiviudal fuel pipe as undone. From there buy some 'Easy Start' and spray into the air intake and crank the engine. If the mechanics of the engine OK (i.e. cracked cylinder head, pistons etc.) the engine should run until the 'Easy Start' runs out. This in turn should indicate that the combustion side of the engine is working.
That was the theory and now the practice. Decided to go for the easy route first and sprayed 'Easy Start' into the air intake. After cranking the engine on the key couple of times, there was a slight knock and the engine burst into life.
Engine sounded normal so I left it running a couple of minutes without any 'Easy Start' assistance and it ran sweet as a nut. Had to be a bit careful as there is no coolant in the motor yet. Switched it off, left it a few minutes and then restarted with no problems at all.
Next move is to re-assemble the engine components (drive belt, radiator, intercooler rad etc.) and get a lick test done to see if the head gasket as got a problem between a water way and combusion chamber and go from there.
As can be imagined, from an engine that as not run from last January to burst into life 6 months later with a few sprays from a £4 can of 'Easy Start' I'm well pleased. As least I know at this point that I have not done any major damage. Still got a feeling that I'm going to have to do a head gasket at some point but will see what the lick test throws up.

[john (smifffy)]

thats a bit of luck

just dont use cold start to much as derv engines get addicted to the stuff quiet easy

[Rifleman]

As above, not good for the engine.
BTW, what do you mean by lick test? I'm a mechanic and you've lost me there.

[Frenchfarmer]

I've heard this " addicted to " thing before but it's a machine and it can't be. We use the French equivalent every day in winter as it gets well cold in the mornings but is quite mild during the day so we can't do the Scandinavian 30% petrol thing. but in summer theres no problem. If I get a bit inattentive when I'm topping fields and the music in the headphones is a bit too good I sometimes ( Don't ask/tell the wife ) run out of diesel I fill the tank up give the air filter a good squirt of easy and off she goes without having to do that bleeding thing and get all smelly.

P.S. Lick Test ?????

[gregster]

I always thought the lick test was for checking 9volt pp3 battery's!

pp3.jpg

You don't mean sniffer test do you, as they can prove headgasket probs, by testing the content of bubbles etc coming up through the header tank?

With regards to easystart, I have heard this addiction story before also, but dont know if there is any truth to it...

I must admit though, diesels sound pretty clattery when they start on the stuff, and I guess that cant do to much good if repeated regularly...

Laters

Gregster

[Road Hog]

[Retro Pedro]

'Lick' test should have been worded as 'Leak' test.
Yes I was referring to the blue chemical test that apparently a container is placed on the coolant header tank. I believe that when the coolant temperature reaches the hot mark, if gases are present in the coolant, the blue chemical turns yellow thus detecting gases from the cylinders - head gasket gone.
Been looking on ebay and it appears these vacuum testers are about £30.
Does anybody know if these can be purchased cheaper elsewhere or is that a fair price?

Going back to my Kia thunder bus, I do wonder if the XL800 may have dislodged some crud in the coolant system and made things worse, hence the motor dieing on me with perhaps fuel starvation. May have allowed chemicals/grease up onto the injectors/valves etc., and taking on board A friend's point that the Easy Start acts as a decreaser, might have cleaned to allow fuel through. Who knows, reckon the best thing I can do is carry on put it back together, do the leak test and go from there. Then perhaps I can get on with getting my Fronty 2.8 body/suspension lift done and start playing. Bloody cars.

[Alfie]

One of the places i worked had an iron fairy that would not evan contemplate starting without easy start. Our mechanic always reconed it was addicted to it. When I was in the army we used to use stuff called Kaigas for severe cold starting and that used to wreck valves aswell.

[Road Hog]

Sorry Peter I missed the bit about wanting a vacuam tester what are you wanting to check ?

I use one of THESE with a windscreen washer T piece & suck on a short hose

With the bonus that it can be used to test fuel pressure on petrol cars as well

[Drift]

When I was in the Army on the ports we used easy start by the pallet full to get everything from stackers LR's fiat alisas and even cranes started.

Emergency use is ok very occasionally as even some recovery companies use it, but I wouldnt rely on it everyday.

[Retro Pedro]

Hi A friend
This is the jobby I was thinking of
http://www.uktools.com/block-tester-p-12508.html

I know I'm talking Kia Sedona here and this forum is for Fronteras' but If you guys don't mind I wouldn't mind any opinions or thoughts as to my problems with this motor.
Got it all back together, filled it with clean water (didn't want to waste anti-freeze at this stage).
It starts first time and runs OK, but I do get an initial clatter at start up and the same again when I turn it off. But when it's running it's fine with no abnormal noises.
I have got a water leak that I need to address before I take it for a run. On these motors there is an auxilliary heater at the back that allow passengers in the third row to switch their own heating system on. Basically there are feed and return pipes that run underneath the car from the heater matrix to another blower in the rear. I've got quite a bad corrosion leak in one of the feed pipes. I'm thinking of a temporary by-pass of these extension pipes so I can fill the coolant properly and take the motor for a run and see what's what.
I did wonder if the corrosion in the heater pipes was allowing air into the coolant system and that's where I was getting air pressure backing up in the header tank. Wishful thinking but really I reckon I do need to do the cylinder leak test just to confirm if I've got problems in the cylinder head area. On the down side I am thinking that I might have done damage running the car with so little water prior to it stopping last January. Thinking warped or cracked cylinder head.

[Road Hog]

WOW, they have really dropped in price,at that sort of money it would be silly not to test the system

[Sir-Doris]

Thats not a bad price for a leak tester. Cheapest I have seen so far is about £60.

[awdriver96]

The reason that the "old wives tale|" of easy start addiction came about, was that years ago if an engine was well worn out, the cost of stripping /repairing was usually prohibitive, so easy start was used. The longer this went on the more clapped out the engine became and the more easy start was needed, hence the addiction tale.
The reason for the clattering etc is nothing to do with lube, it is because ether ignites at a much lower compression than diesel oil so effectively you are causing massive pre ignition until it is burnt off, (the reason for the warnings not to use it for long once engine fires and runs) it is a useful tool to get a reluctant engine to start but not a fix for mechanical faults.

We used to have an old Drott B100 shovel loader that we used around the yard and workshop. It had all the compression of a flat cushion and used oil in gallons, but to remove the engine and strip it to fit new liners and pistons and do the head etc was far more than the whole machine was worth, so it always had half a dozen cans of easy start in the tool box! once running it would go happily all day and even re-start whilst hot, you just had to keep putting in old engine oil from the lorry oil changes to keep it full. In those days the oil was changed fortnightly, ( about 2k miles ) and so there was plenty to go at.
The good old days!
Mike

[Retro Pedro]

Got me old pecker up now. Car starts on key and runs lovely without Easy start, so I reckon I had some crud somewhere. Only problem was it had a deep clattering noise on initial start up and when I turn the engine off. Along with me, a couple of mates thought it sounded like big end problem.
On these Sedona's, to do any work on the timing belt end of the engine, you have to take the top engine mount off, so tonight I got the misses to start it up whilst I pushed down on the top mount and to my relief the clattering noise had gone. I hadn't secured the top engine mount bolt properly or positioned it correctly. Happy days.
All I've got to do now is to do a tempory repair job on the heater pipes with jubilee clips and split water hose so that it holds water before doing the leak test. Fingers crossed.