[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_content.php on line 678: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_content.php on line 678: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_content.php on line 678: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_content.php on line 678: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_content.php on line 678: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_content.php on line 678: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_content.php on line 678: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_content.php on line 678: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_content.php on line 678: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_content.php on line 678: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_content.php on line 678: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_content.php on line 678: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 136: preg_match_all(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 138: array_unique() expects parameter 1 to be array, null given
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions_reimg.php on line 141: Invalid argument supplied for foreach()
// Frontera Technical Support • View topic - Torque and Horsepower explained
   
 

Torque and Horsepower explained

banter general discussions etc

Torque and Horsepower explained

Postby Sir-Doris on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:28 pm

Found this on www.akamoto.com
If you ever wondered how torque and horsepower are worked out it makes for some interesting reading:

The word horsepower as it relates to machines, was defined by James Watt, the inventor of the steam engine in about 1775. Watt learned that "a strong horse could lift 150 pounds a height of 220 feet in 1 minute." So imagine a horse raising coal out of a coal mine. A horse exerting one horsepower could raise 220 pounds of coal one foot every minute.
One horsepower is also expressed as 550 pounds one foot in one second ot 33,000 pounds one foot in one minute. These are just different ways of saying the same thing.

Here is another way horsepower could be directly measured. Say you have a horse hitched to a plow. In the hitch is a spring scale (like a fish scale). The horse pulls the plow one foot every second and you see 550 pounds on the scale. That would be one horsepower.

So horsepower can be directly measured. However there is a problem directly measuring horsepower of modern day internal combustion engines because they produce rotary motion not linear motion. And unless the engine is geared down, the speed at which they do work (RPM) is too great for practical direct measurement of horsepower. It seems logical then that the solution was to directly measure torque (rotational force eventually expressed in pounds at one foot radius) and RPM (time and distance, i.e. distance in circumference at the one foot radius) and from these calculate horsepower. Torque and RPM are easily measured directly. Early dynamometers used a brake device to load the engine. A torque arm was attached to this brake's stator. The brake's rotor was coupled to the engine's crankshaft. A spring scale or other measuring device connected the torque arm to the stationary fixture holding the engine and brake. During a test the brake's application loaded the engine. Torque and engine rpm were observed and recorded. Click here for a description of how this happens on our dyno.

So on modern day dynamometers horsepower is a calculated value. It's important to remember the dyno measures torque and rpm and then from these calculates horsepower. On the dyno it takes more water flow to the water brake to increase the load on the engine being tested. As the test engine's torque rises more water flow is needed. As the test engine's torque drops less water flow is needed. The dyno's water brake does not respond to horsepower. Major adjustments to water flow are needed as an engine crosses its torque peak but none are needed as it crosses its horsepower peak. In other words the water flow to the brake during a dyno test follows the engines torque curve and not its horsepower curve. Torque is what twists the tyre, prop, or pump. Horsepower helps us understand an amount or quantity of torque. (Torque + time)

Now if we are measuring torque and RPM how can we calculate horsepower? We will use Watts observation of one horsepower as 150 pounds, 220 feet in one minute. First we need express 150 pounds of force as foot pounds torque.
· Pretend the force of 150 pounds is "applied" tangentially to a one foot radius circle. This would be 150 foot pounds torque.
Next we need to express 220 feet in one minute as RPM.

· The circumference of a one foot radius circle is 6.283186 feet. ft. (Pi x diameter 3.141593 * 2 feet)
· The distance of 220 feet, divided by 6.283185 feet, gives us a RPM of 35.014.
We are then talking about 150 pounds of force (150 foot pounds torque), 35 RPM, and one horsepower.
Constant (X) = 150 ft.lbs. * 35.014 RPM / 1hp
35.014 * 150 / 1 = 5252.1
5252 is the constant.
So then hp = torque * RPM / 5252

Here is another way; Remember we know 150 foot pounds and 35.014 RPM = one horsepower
1hp is to 150 ft.lbs. * 35.014 RPM as X hp is to observed ft.lbs.torque * observed RPM
Example; We dyno test and observe 400 ft.lbs. torque at 5000 RPM
1 hp is to 150 ft.lbs. * 35.014 RPM as X hp is to 400 ft.lbs. * 5000 RPM
When we cross multiply X hp * (150 ft.lbs. * 35.014 RPM) = 1hp * (400 ft.lbs. * 5000 RPM)
X hp * (5252 ft.lbs. RPM) = 1 hp * (2,000,000 ft.lbs. RPM)
Divide both sides by 5252 ft.lbs. RPM
X hp = 1 hp * 380.80
X hp = 380.80 hp
Horsepower = torque x rpm / 5252

Here's an interesting bit of trivia; below 5252 rpm any engine's torque number will always be higher than its horsepower number, and above 5252 rpm any engine's horsepower number will always be higher than its torque number. At 5252 rpm the horsepower and torque numbers will be exactly the same.
I also drink Port and I'm not ashamed to say it!

Me Truck

Image
User avatar
Sir-Doris
Sir Dong
Sir Dong
 
Posts: 7391
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:16 am
Location: Powys, Wales
Model: 2.2i 5dr
Registration Year: 1995/N
Vehicle Name:
Modifications:
Region: Mid Wales



Re: Torque and Horsepower explained

Postby Dupe on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:33 pm

sorry but thats a lot for the old brain this time of night :dance:
Dupe
Retired
 
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 4:30 pm
Location: Walmer
Region: South East



Re: Torque and Horsepower explained

Postby Drift on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:39 pm

Interesting stuff Phil 8)

You might need a bigger garage at this rate :wink:
Ste
FOG Administrator

Frontera Technical Support
Often Imitated Never Bettered

http://www.fronteraowners.co.uk
Image
Its here, the FOG Annual Meet 2014 viewforum.php?f=123
User avatar
Drift
The Man-ual
The Man-ual
 
Posts: 43955
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:20 pm
Location: Driftshire
Model: 2.8 TDI 5dr
Registration Year: 1995/N
Vehicle Name:
Modifications:
Region: North West

Skype:Skype Me.!



Re: Torque and Horsepower explained

Postby Sir-Doris on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:40 pm

I was wondering how many people would make it to the end and still understand it ;-)
I also drink Port and I'm not ashamed to say it!

Me Truck

Image
User avatar
Sir-Doris
Sir Dong
Sir Dong
 
Posts: 7391
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:16 am
Location: Powys, Wales
Model: 2.2i 5dr
Registration Year: 1995/N
Vehicle Name:
Modifications:
Region: Mid Wales



Re: Torque and Horsepower explained

Postby Drift on Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:49 pm

Admittedly the numbers hurt but the principle and basic understanding I somehow :lol: already knew 8)
Ste
FOG Administrator

Frontera Technical Support
Often Imitated Never Bettered

http://www.fronteraowners.co.uk
Image
Its here, the FOG Annual Meet 2014 viewforum.php?f=123
User avatar
Drift
The Man-ual
The Man-ual
 
Posts: 43955
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:20 pm
Location: Driftshire
Model: 2.8 TDI 5dr
Registration Year: 1995/N
Vehicle Name:
Modifications:
Region: North West

Skype:Skype Me.!



Re: Torque and Horsepower explained

Postby Road Hog on Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:36 am

Come on Phil get with it,everybody thinks in Kw & Nm`s these days :roll: Then you need to factor in the variables like ......... are you measuring horsepower/torque at the flywheel or the roadwheels :?: :wink:
User avatar
Road Hog
Forum Wino
Forum Wino
 
Posts: 12637
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:39 pm
Region: International



Re: Torque and Horsepower explained

Postby Sir-Doris on Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:04 am

Roadwheels Bernie and Im old skool ;-)
I also drink Port and I'm not ashamed to say it!

Me Truck

Image
User avatar
Sir-Doris
Sir Dong
Sir Dong
 
Posts: 7391
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:16 am
Location: Powys, Wales
Model: 2.2i 5dr
Registration Year: 1995/N
Vehicle Name:
Modifications:
Region: Mid Wales




Return to General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests