water as fuel

[Wave]

your correct do not add baking soda as it dose increase the carbon dioxide. i think there just trying to pad out their kits.

its easy to make your own system i will post some links later.

for just a hyrdogen booster a length of 4" rain pipe a thin strip of 316l stainless and same size strip of nylon mesh as an insulator all rolled up together works great in the rain pipe. the hydrogen booster's gas can just be fed in through the vac inlet.

for a 100% hydrogen fueled car best bet is a carbbed petrol car as the gas can just be fed in through the carb. (single point injector cars )

you can not get the desiels to run 100% as they need the eninge to be set at tickover using desiel and when revved will use the gas.

will post links to some good sites with plans.

i do have a set of plans for a cell that would produce 100ltr/min (central heating anyone )

[Andyoz]

I've installed an HHO system that I bought on ebay. I just haven't got the time at the moment to make my own, although I do intend to. I have used the car to drive down to Dover and back up to Canterbury before filling up to the brim. I've done 140 miles and there does appear to be a significant improvement in MPG. When I next fill up I'll let you know the exact figure. It's looking even better than I could have hoped for as I returned from Canterbury on the motorways at about 15 mph faster than I normally drive on M-ways.

[bobbinsjob]

[perfectprincess]

not a technical reply but the amount of fuel my fronty using recently( traveling for miles with work) it would be a huge benefit.

[Andyoz]

Sorry but I'm going to have to restart my MPG check as the fuse blew on the connection I made to the fuse box for the unit. I noticed that the fuel gauge was dropping at it's normal rate over two short journeys. When I got home I took out the 20 amp fuse from the fuse block and it had blown. The unit has it's own in-line fuse rated at 30 amps so I guess this was to be expected. I'll fill up on the way to work today and by next Wednesday I'll have covered 260 miles and the tank would be very low by then.

[Andyoz]

A further update. I forgot to take my wallet and cash with me to work yesterday so was unable to fill up on the way. With the new fuse the unit was working again, and what a difference. On the M25 at 60 or 70 and on the level parts I was only depressing the accelerator a tiny bit just to let in the fuel. To get any engine braking you have to take your foot right off the pedal. I traveled 35 miles and the gauge moved by the width of the pointer, at the segment where the pointer was I would normally have seen a movement of about just under half the whole segment. When I next fill up, Monday pm, I'll calculate the MPG which will be inclusive of about 30-40 miles where the unit was not functioning. I'll then restart my MPG check to get an accurate figure. I'll update on Mon or Tues am.

[Paul A]

Anybody listen to Dr Karl on BBC2 or download the podcast from triple j?
This question came up this week, answer was that it's all pretty much "Snake oil".
The laws of thermodynamics are that:
You can't get out more than you put in basically.
Whatever benefit you get from the HHO is negated by the amount of power you need to put in.
In this case Electricity from the battery.
The extra drag on the alternator will equal the amount of benefit you get from the HHO.
The only advantage that he could see might be cleaner emissions.
Disadvantages could be a huge explosion from under the bonnet (Red hot turbo+hydrogen+oxygen=Bang)

[Andyoz]

Just an update to let you know how I'm getting on with the system. First two tanks of petrol and the fuse to the circuit I tapped into blew meaning that I couldn't get an accurate MPG reading. The first time I noticed that the fuel gauge was dropping rather quickly so checked the unit and it was not fizzing away as it should have been. I fitted a higher rated fuse but that also blew and I decided that the wiring probably wouldn't take any higher current so I wired it directly to the battery as a temporary measure with the circuit being protected by it's own 30 amp fuse.
Next fill up and when I got to work I discovered that the vapour trap that the unit feeds into had fallen off its mounting and onto the exhaust, melting it quite badly. I made another but decided to invert it and have some water in the bottom so I could see the bubbles passing through. I started off using no bicarb and was getting one bubble per second, one teaspoon full gave three bubbles a second, and eventually three teaspoons giving a near constant flow.
At this rate of gas production the fuse holder was getting very hot, so I'm guessing it's near to it's limit of 30 amps. Just in case I'm going to reduce to two and a half spoons and fill up on Tuesday.
Remember that I am not running on HHO, but the HHO is acting as a catalyst to improve the efficiency of the combustion of the petrol I'm still running on. Although I cannot produce any MPG figures as yet I'm quite certain that there is an improvement in the MPG from the movement on the gauge when the unit was operating correctly.
I'll let you know my results when I've finished my next tankful, as I'm on leave that'll be about ten days time.
Andy

[lastmadrich]

hi to all im new here but reading on your views of this i have experamnted with all sorts of catalists,distilled water,tap water even minral water the main problem you have is the electrodes become very contaminated at the negative end thus production starts to reduce but in saying that it does produce a very nice burn if collected and lit with a match not recomended though trust me i have also looked into water4gas product and seemed intresting enough there drawings show copper wire raped round an insulater but as stated earlyer the negative electrode becomes caked in green like substance (like when copper corodes goes green) hooked it up to a generator though its air filter ran a little quiter but nothing to shout about untill there is advances in real efficent production it not realy a viable source of as in terms of energy you get out the same energy that you put into makeing it but none the less am still playing so if i come up with something that produces real results then il post my findings and how too`s lol

p.s school was out when they was teaching spelling sorry all.

[alex]

The energy in to out theory is sound, but not chemically. In this instance the enrgy in is to split the atoms apart (making 2 lots of H2 for each O2 produced.) the burn you get is a release of a different kind and not dependant on the input required to split the molecule.
If I had access to the right books there are simple ways of calculating the energy needed per mole of HHO and that will then give a volume of Hydrogen and Oxygen that has a enery to give when burnt.

As far as this goes, it would be far simpler to set up a manufacturing set at home and bottle the gas to feed into the car, so the primitive electrics of a car isnt burdened with the cracking. Its a bit like towing a mini oil refinery around and cracking the crued into derv on the fly.

Do you have figures on the amount of gas it produces over an hour or so driving, then you can look at the various bottled gasses that holds a similar amount and look at regulating it straight into the car.