Pulling a trailer - VOSA changes 4/12/2011

[Retro Pedro]

[drinksoptional]

is this a commercial change or public

[Drift]

The operators licence would be for business use I assume?

[drinksoptional]

Thats what i was thinking

[Gazeddy]

yeh been told this was just for commercial purposes. but you know vosa

[drinksoptional]

ctually i dont never met them

I cannot see this been for private use i dont think the rest of europe has operators licence for its citzens to pull a trailer

[gregster]

Think this only applies to commercial towing Pete...you'll be fine though as no trailer has a hitch high enough to reach your towball anyway, and dangling goods from your recovery points isnt covered by this new ruling I dont think!

[Retro Pedro]

Got to admit, I don't know for sure - but it's the bit that says the current exemption of trailer unlaiden weight of 1020kg that as got me thinking.
I believe the 3500kg is the total 'train weight', so if your Fronty weights just under 2 tonne, the trailer 1 tonne plus the motor on the trailer being more than 500kg+ - does this then give you a combined 'train' weight of over 3500kg, which means you need an operators licence to do so.

To put a bit more understanding into 'operators licence', through my work I have to employ the services of courier companies. One of the fellas has got a normal mid size transit that can carry 1.5 tonne payload and another upgraded double wheeled transit that can legally carry 2.3 tonne. The heavier payload upgraded one is governed by an operator's licence which inturn carries tacho restrictions etc. The 1.5 tonne doesn't so that as no tacho etc restrictions imposed.
I believe there are differences in commercial and personal use - again through work, I've looked to hire a 7.5 tonne lorry, and the guy behind the desk advised me that if I was hiring it to move house with my personal possessions, I would be OK, but if I used it for work purposes carrying commercial goods making deliveries, then the hirer would need an operators licence. If pulled over by VOSA, and commercial goods were found inside the vehicle, then we would have been liable for prosecution for not having an operators licence.
So when pulling a trailer, I'm wondering if going over the 3500kg threshold will impose operator's licence requirements if the vehicle on the trailer is not your personal possession. What would classify commercial or personal use.

[Drift]

If you gained the trailer for free your fine, but if its for gain or reward you need to comply with the Operator Licence rules.
As long as no transaction is made your fine.

[john (smifffy)]

if you look at the link in the first post
http://www.olmc.eu/transportnews/headli ... t-2011.php


and look at the top of the page it gives you the answer operator licence legislation
This exemption is looking like it is set to be abolished but only for standard national and international operator licenses


its for commerical company's that already do it its just to get them to add all there vehicles to there "O" licence

so for joe bloggs moving a motor on a trailer it dont affect him if his not paid
also dont forget your insurance for most say's not for hire or reward

[Big Dav]

Read an interesting comment elsewhere on another site - punter has his own road use 4x4 which he uses to tow a trailer transporting his off-road only 4x4 special. The all up train weight exceeds the 3.5kgs. His worry is does he need an operators licence as he enters club competitions and wins prizes or, as he put it "rewards for coming first, second or third."!?

[Norse]

Ybut he isnt being rewarded FOR the towing

[Big Dav]

I know, but what an interpretation!

[Fatbaz]

In the local paper recently there was an article concerning an undertaker. He used a 7.5 ton truck to transport 2 horses and his horse drawn hearse around the country to various funerals with out o licence or tacho thinking he was exempt from both as he was transporting his personal items and being outside the hire and reward clause. Unfortunately the local justice didn't see it that way and hit him with a heffty fine. Stating the the transportation on the items were not hire or reward but the items would be used for H&R, same as trailering a digger/JCB etc from site to site, the transportation is a means toO H&R therefore inclusive.

Therefore as a point of law your man trailering his compotion vehicle around or for that matter others that trailer track cars to and from events could be on shakey ground if they came before the beak.

Don't know that I agree or fully understand but thats the way it was

Regards

Stuart

[Big Dav]

I would say the undertaker was in need of such a licence - it was business use whereas the chap going to a 4x4 club meet does not do that for a living unless, for payment he transports other persons trucks on the trailer.

[Big Dav]

With the impending legislation, will that cause people to consider identifying Operating Centres and the possible consequential problems with council planninng departments regarding the use thereof?

[Wilberforce]

This is starting to get needlessly bogged down and complicated again...

As Smiffy says above, this is going to have next to no effect on the general public as far as towing things, even 4x4's on a trailer behind you. It's for those who tow trailers in the course of work or commercial activities using vehicles classed as commercials, not the PLG type that a Fronty falls under.
Baz: Your funeral director that's mentioned, quite correct that he needs an O-license, as he's driving a commercial vehicle and he's working for reward - namely whatever fee he has agreed for providing his services as a funeral director (I'll turn up and provide this service, in exchange for a price of xxx. It's a legal contract).
Dav: The chappie pulling his 4x4 special for competition use doesn't need an O-license because, prize money or no, he's not doing it for hire or reward but for personal or pleasure use. If however he entered into lots of events with the intention of winning any prize money as his primary income then that would likely be a different matter.

For the rest of us, towing another 4x4 behind you is exactly the same as towing your caravan on holidays, or a trailer full of rubbish to the skip, or hiring a 7.5t truck to move house with.
As long as you stay within the legal weight limits for the vehicle / trailer combination then you're fine; your mate saying "can you do such and such for me with your trailer, and I'll pay for the fuel / buy your lunch" won't make any difference.
Even Woodwizzard is unlikely to have a problem with log deliveries because a Trooper is a PLG, so as long as he's honest with HMRC, no problem.

[aviemorefrontera]

i can see merit in it being used for business purposes,but i use mine to tow a 16ft trailer and autograss car,and i would be furious if officer dibble or pc plod,pulled me for no operator license,when it is being used for personal pleasure competing in an amateur competition,i could see merit if i pulled a wrc or btcc car which i ran for profit but they must keep a clearly defining line

[Retro Pedro]

Van driver at my works is a retired Kent traffic cop (was a right bar-steward one as well) - put the question to him and he initially can't see a problem for Joe public having O licence provided you answer correctly. Then I said it's a possible change in legislation from 4/12/11. As he still pops round for a cuppa with his old work collegues, he's going to ask the questions so might be able to get a better definition from whats occuring. Let you know when I know.

[john (smifffy)]

it aint cheap having an O licence

the new legislastion is for commercial business only

read this it gives all the details http://www.acrobat-rental.co.uk/pdf_s/O ... eGuide.pdf

it does not count for cars as to have an O licence you need an operating center
An operating centre is where your vehicles are normally kept when not in use. The operating centre should
provide sufficient off street parking for all your vehicles and trailers. which will involve the council planning dept

your probably looking at about £5k layout for exams licence and operating center advertising in area

as i said its only for comercial business