2.2 tdi or Opel Monterey

Last edited by badsykes on Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

I don't know where to put this topic..The other 2 options were other Isuzu cars or General
I may need to make a choice in the future and some opinions are welcome.After killing the diff and reading around i saw that the 2.0 have the weakest diff from all Frontera series so i have to choices in my head:

Advantages for frontera 2.2tdi
- less fuel consumtion than Monterey
- more parts
- pretty popular
-posibility to register the car in my country without paying with my kidneys for taxes
- driving more car-like(for me is not really a big advantage, i like mine how is driving)
- still a frontera

Disatvantage for 2.2tdi

-Now i am not sure how much tougher is the 2.2 front diff so the chances to kill it again because of some "newbie" bad driving...
- after 2.0 barier things taxes get double..So i have one shot (one car that i need to choose) ... If i choose wrong i will regret..Is hard to sell..
- Too much electronics vs 2.0i , more costly , more headaches than 2.0 ?

Advantages of the Monterey 3.1

- Agricultural feel like the A series frontera
- less electronics....i think
- i read that is a bomb proof engine..Looks like a good replacement for my 2.0
- tough diffs .. chance to break are smaller..
- maybe less headaches than 2.2tdi
- ratios designed for heavy duty ..
- if it's working corectly and service may become i may keep it for much much longer...I am more soft to medium offroad..

Disatvantages
- I need to register the car in Bulgaria because the tax+insurance for 3.0+ engines are around 800euros if not more..This implies some risks with papers and police..Is legal but not good for peace of mind...
- Same fuel consumption as the 2.0 which is on the high side but let's say i can live with this..
- a rare bird around here..But not so rare like Vehicross
- maybe more expensive parts
- maybe harder to find parts...

Hi hopefully somebody could confirm but I think the 3.1 is the same as the trooper engine from isuzu which suffer from injector problems which is common on these engines whereas the 2.2dti suffers fuel pump problems.

It is the 30L Trooper that has the injector issues not the 3.1.

But reading your post and if they are available in your area the 2.8 Frontera would be your ideal choice, they are tough and can be lifted higher than the B series and come in under your countries 30L ruling on tax.

That said not to many B series bust their diffs :wink:

Cheers drift my mate had the 3.1 and got told by an isuzu tech that they suffer injector probs. Just going on what I have heard as I havent owned a 3.1 and dont know much about them. Cheers

Nope its definitely the 30L newer engine that has this issue, they had a free recall even the imports (no mileage limit) but some still suffered related problems.
Isuzu in fairness have been generally good about it but you good ole 3.1 is a completely different beasty :thumbup:

Ah cool thats gd to know for if I ever thing of changin from my fronty.

It's a no brainer mate,2.8 fronty or 3.1 trooper/monterey
Nice simple and reliable,may be a bit thirstier than the 2.2,but you'll save more than the cost of fuel not buying different sensors every other week just to put the eml light out :wink:

I'd take the Dti every time. Even with the iffy fuel pump, but that's just because IMO the B series is a much more civilised drive. The Trooper is much better than the 2.8 Fronty , but still not as nice as the B .

All said and done the B series are not the strongest offroad where the OP seems to having problems, hence the front diff breaking.
The A series are in general more robust (maybe 20l diff excluded) the B series where designed to be less agricultural and more refined on the road hence the play off, many manufactures strive for both but unless you spend silly money way out of Frontera scope sadly you wont get that type of compromise.

Not so sure about the injector problems, I always thought the 3.1 was basically a 2.8 but with a different bore/stroke. The 2.8 is pretty much bullet proof so long as you do the oil changes etc.

You could always go for the Fronty 2.8 to get below the tax thing and swap out the vx axles for isuzu trooper ones.... with lsd etc.

I don't want very civilized..I like the A series style of driving.It's trucky and i like trucky.The only thing i miss on my A series is the cruise control on long trips on highways and ,not a part of your usual offroad car option, a parrot on my shoulder that tels me when i am breaking 100km/h speed barrier where the fuel consumption goes higher..

Some tax prices and barriers:

Up to The 2.5 tax is around 200 euro so is still within "barely afordable" margin without insurance that goes another 250euros...450 euro is fine..
Over 2.5 barrier the tax double again.So for 2.8 the tax is around 450-500euros without insurance..For 3.0DOHC (2999cc) newer Isuzu engine the tax is 30euros more than the 2.8 .. 500 euros without insurance
For 3.1 (3059cm3) td isuzu engine only the tax is around 1050euro without insurance..

4JG2 is the 3.1td (3059cc) engine vs 4JX1T the 3.0 (2999cc) newer engine with injector problems

I think this thread should make more light on 3.0L injector problems from an Isuzu mechanic

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... tm?t=20771

Search for this guy post "isuzu trooper - Sitec"

Hi folks ... resident Isuzu boffin here.

Ok the Vauxhall Monterey is literally a rebadged Trooper with a Vauxhall immobiliser on it.

They started with the Mk.II Trooper (1992) and went with it right up to the introduction of the 3.0 (4JX1) engine.

That expert by the Isuzu mechanic is fairly accurate but is a bit misleading. I cannot remember anyone with a 3.1 Trooper having issues with the DMF (dual mass flywheel). Also it has a direct injection system (like the 2.8 4Jb1). The 3.0 (4JX1) has its issues, and for these reasons I would never buy one ... no matter how good it is when running.

3.0 issues:
Injector sleeves. The original sleeves first fitted to the 3.0 were badly designed, and after short order allowed diesel to bypass the o'rings. Being a common rail system this diesel will find its way into the oil system and slowly thin the oil out. Apart from reducing the viscosity of the oil causing premature wear it mainly caused the oil to bypass the oil seals on the turbo and then re-enter the cylinders. (I think that is where this Isuzu mechanic gets his "unreliable turbo" thoughts from. Once the diesely Oil gets into the pistons it effectively giving the engine free fuel no matter what the injectors are doing. The engine over runs and can knacker it completely. Worth noting that Isuzu here in the UK are still offering a free recall on this issue so long as the truck hasn't already had the injectors replaced. I have know 12 year old trucks getting a brand new engine and turbo etc ... dunno if that would be viable in Europe though.

ORPS (Oil Rail Pressure Sensor). They fail. It cannot detect the oil pressure in the rail so it doesn't allow the injectors to fire. Simple to bypass, and change, but does require a Tech II operation to sync the ORPS to the main ECU. Bypassing it is only a temporary thing involving cutting a wire, but not good for long term use.

TPS (Throttle Position Sensor). They go wrong. You can get them fairly easily here in the UK, but you have to buy the entire unit (complete throttle assembly) and that isn't cheap. There has been results with replacing with known good second hand units.

TPS Wiring Loom. Again a recall. Water gets into the plugs and shorts them out. Often appears as a fault with the TPS, but if you disconnect the plug, clean and dry it, then disconnect the battery for 10 mins. All will be fine. Common fix is silicone the hell out of it to prevent water ingress, or drill a drain hole.

These four are the big let downs on the 3.0 4JX1 ... All of which I would say tell me not to buy one.

Ck the 3.1 (4JG2). Its basically the same as the 2.8 (4JB1) with some major and minor differences. The 2.8 is a direct feed injection system. The 3.1 is an indirect feed injection system. Less power but less noise. Funnily they went back to the direct feed injection system on the 3.0. The engine itself is just a bored and stroked version of the 2.8. People say the 3.1 is bullet proof, but it is only as bullet proof as long as it is looked after. Any engine will pop if it isn't serviced regularly. Also being a bored and stroked 2.8 means it is a slightly weaker engine. Saying that I would have a 3.1 any day. The 3.1 isn't as fuel efficient as the 2.8 either. Anything that is bolted to the 2.8 can be bolted to the 3.1. Another thing to watch for is the post 1995 Isuzu Bighorn automatics. Bighorn is the Japanese market Trooper. These versions have an ECU controlled electronic fuel pump. This fuel pump isn't as strong as the normal Bosch VE mechanical pump (or the VE pump equivalents by Diesel Kiki and Zexel) The have been known to go wrong and finding replacements can be a pain.

Looking at your situation I would go with Drifty here and suggest the 2.8 Frontera. They come in both short and long wheel base. The diffs are possibly the toughest on the Frontera range. They have minimal electrics. No ECU (the 2.8 and 3.1 are pure mechanical in operation). The engine size is under your tax limits. They are good on fuel economy. Parts are readily available anywhere around the world for the engine. The 2.8 is the most reliable of the entire Frontera, Monterey, and Isuzu range. Good luck in finding a good one though. They are getting very rare now and most are being broken for scrap.

RatNav: thx for input...The thing is 2.8 frontera is still more expensive because it pass 2.5 mark and i may need to register it in Bulgaria .. tax+insurance anually will be around 800euros (2 average salaries for 2 month...I kinda hate this)..In bulgaria should be around 300euro anually instead 800euro..If i read correctly in Bulgaria if you pass the 2.5 mark the price is the same for 3.1 or 2.8 ...

Out of all your engine choices I would go 2.8 followed by 3.1. I would avoid the others personally. That's just my opinion though.

2.0 is really nice too..No problems with it..Just underpowered..I talked today with someone that by luck made some repairs on the 2.8 diesel and he said the form and placements of things are kinda weird and you need to dismantle some big things to reach little things that are checked more regulalry..On the bright side he said the engine is very "speedy" and make the car a little rocket when going it from full stop position...Also i would count on you guys to get parts and stuff because Isuzu engines are rare birds around here...

Every thing on the 2.8 is pretty easy to get to,

All the important regularly changed service items are very easy to get to.

Also funnily most 2.8 stuff is only available via Germany if you go to Vauxhall main dealers. Saying that pattern parts are off the shelf of most autofactors. If you can find a Blueprint stockist near you then your laughing as they support most things on a 2.8.

http://www.blueprint-adl.com/

Seems my country is in their list..Thank you.