LWB vs SWB

[hipo1024]

Ok well Im after a 2.8. Id like a SWB because of its "convertable-ness" and its better ability offroad (ie it wont get high centred half as much as a LWB) but dont like the fact it only has 2 seats in the back and a small boot...but then again it is only a SWB.

So has anyone owned both a 2.8 SWB and LWB?? and which did they prefer and for what reasons? It is going to be used as a daily driver....and as a rag about offroad - ie Im not going to worry about body damage to much. Id like as much sus lift as I can get....now from what Ive hurd the SWB's dont like going up much more than about 2.5" before the rear prop starts moaning...but the LWB can handle a 4" sus lift all day long?

So heres a question for someone thats good with maths and physics - would a 2.8 LWB lifted 4" belly out as much as a SWB with just 2" sus lift?

And also just to double check....the pump on a 2.8 doesnt mind WVO as long as the seals have been replaced recently or with uprated ones??

I would just jump straght in with a 2.8 SWB but there just dont seem to be any...and theres a nice looking 2.8 LWB with chrome bull bars just up the road from me atm so Im going to have a look at that this weekend .

Any things to look out for?? and what would be an acceptable price for this time of year for a N reg truck with about 190k miles on it?? wich has failed its MOT on a few "minor issues" (I dont know what those issues are yet)

LINK - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0871241786

[Wilberforce]

Well, I've got one of each currently, but I'd take the LWB over the SWB given the choice of one. 

I bought the shorty as a first step into the diesel world when it was bought to my attention by the Mad Australian. Got bored of 2.2 ecotecs going foom. Bought the BBB a while later as I wasn't quite so convinced about the shorty as a daily runner. 

Off road, the only major difference I've found is the turning circle on the LWB is noticeably bigger, but it's a little more stable up and down hills. Yes, the LWB stock will beach itself before the SWB, but if you're planning on a 3" or more lift that ought not to be a major issue; as for cross axling, there's places a LWB will get stuck and a SWB won't and vice-versa. 
On road, I just prefer the size and handling of the LWB; maybe I'm just too used to bigger cars, I don't know. 

As a guide, I managed to lay my hands on my latest for £740, and that had 6 months tax and test and only 75k miles (plus the other toys, but that was a bonus) and Stretch has just acquired his 2.8 SWB for about the same, with 140k miles and still some tax and test to run. 
The car you've linked looks tidy enough, but would stand a bit of an inspection. If its got no MOT, and will need things doing then the seller is probably being a bit optimistic with his reserve - £550-600 tops for that I'd say. Drifty will probably weigh in with an opinion too. 
Eyeball the fuel lines running along the chassis rails, the sills  by the rear wheel arches, and make sure there are no nasty noises from the transmission. The 4WD system is worth a check too. This can be done on Tarmac if needs be, JUST DO NOT DO ANYTHING EXCEPT A STRAIGHT LINE! Open both front windows, select 4L and go forwards - you should hear an audible click from each side as the hubs engage; then go in reverse and you should get 2 clicks as the hubs unlock then relock, forwards again should be another 2 clicks. Then stop and select 2H and reverse, there should be one final click from each side after a metre or two as the hubs disengage. 

Erm, that's all from me, sure you'll get other opinions soon. 
The WVO thing, speak to Hound Dog, he's got a gunged up pump in his garage from trying, but Yaki has been running his on bio for ages I think.

[RatCav]

As for the fuel pump on WVO, Bio, SVO its a common discussion (read arguing) point.

The 3.1 (4JG2) version of the pump seems to run fine, but there has been issues with running alternative fuels on the 2.8. Now I don't know what the differences are between the pumps but it has been sugessted that the pressures are different as the two engine have different injector systems. I have been looking at it closely and there doesn't seem to be any hard and fast decision on what would be ok to do. Drifty has been mulling this over for years now, and I have also done quite a bit of investigation as well. I think Wilberforce has hit the nail on the head though as it is a conclusion I have come to. I reckon the 2.8 pump can handle alternative fuels but seeing as most of the 2.8 pumps are now getting on to 14-15 years old the seals are old, worn, and perished. This means the aggressive nature of veg oil and bio will just knacker them in short order. Houddog has indeed got a pump with bust seals in his garage from veg oil, but again as stated Yaki has been running his for ages.

I would say a reconditioned pump, possibly with uprated seals (which diesel bob can do for you) would be safe to use, though I do know that costs over £200 for the reconditioning with fancy seals.

The confusing part for me is the sheer number of 3.1 Troopers running around with bio and veg oil with no problems at all.

If you do go down the veg oil route be prepared for the pump seals to go at a moments notice and keep half a dozen fuel filters in the trunk when they clog up several times over the first 1000 miles or so as the oil strips the gunk out of the lines and clogs the filters up.

[stretch]

If I had to choose one it would be the LWB. I love the size of it so can fit everything I need for a holiday in or put the rear seats down and get a kids climbing frame in with the slide on the roof bars (it's been done). Also like the extra bits like the dog guard which keeps the staffie at bay. The SWB we got is purely to be used for off roading and not a daily driver thus it will be insured under limited mileage and for green laning etc so insurance will (hopefully) be cheaper than an everyday car. Mods will be kept sensible with 2" suspension and 2" body lift, mud tyres and thats it. In my mind my budget for all this including the truck is £1200 and I think it's do-able (just lol).

For the one you've linked I reckon you should get a copy of the MOT failure sheet off him and have a quick scan to see if there's anything too serious or costly on it. Most things i'd say could be fixed at a spanner party. At £700 with reserve not met he's being over optimistic. I would be looking in the £400-£500 range as long as MOT bits are simple fixes.

[hipo1024]

Thank you all for the responses already. I wasn't expecting you to say lwb tho lol. I'll pm hound dog about the fuel pump now and I did think 700 was a bit steep given the high miles and lack of mot. Don't know about the tax yet but that might also need attention. Keep the opinions coming

[stretch]

it's showing as taxed mate

Vehicle enquiry
The enquiry is complete.The vehicle details for N886 COO are:
Date of Liability 01 05 2013
Date of First Registration 11 08 1995
Year of Manufacture 1995
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 2771cc
CO2 Emissions Not Available
Fuel Type HEAVY OIL
Export Marker N
Vehicle Status SORN Not Due
Vehicle Colour BLACK
Vehicle Type Approval Not Available
Vehicle Excise Duty rate for vehicle
6 Months Rate £121.00
12 Months Rate £220.00

but on the ebay ad it says Road Tax: 01/2012

[hipo1024]

[RatCav]

Unless he intends to take the disk off and cash it in

[hipo1024]

Just found out it needs a windscreen for the mot. The tow bar blocks the number plate needs at least 1 new tyre and a few bulb, plus a few things she couldn't remember off the top of her head. So tbh I'd wona be paying scrap value (about £150 - 200) for it and even then it'll still cost best part of £700 to get it on the road :/

Worth the hassle or not? Its only about 20mins away from me so I'll still have a look but what do u lot think?

And no ratty I've texted her and it defo has no tax

[stretch]

offer £200-£250 cash outside of ebay

[BadBoy]

@£700 starting with reserve not met, I doubt that it well even get a bid.
I'd stick £500 in my wallet and ask to go have a look taking examples of other Fronteras off ebay in a similar condition (but with T&T like this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ws/eBayISAPI. ... true&rt=nc), then start to haggle. A windscreen is gonna be £200+ (or is it just a chip which can be repaired cheaper?)
IMO the tow bar doesn't obscure the plate - ok it does just a little, but it also begs the question how has it got through like that on previous MOT's. I'd bet the tester is trying to have them over or doing everything 100%. Either way, it can simply be unbolted and problem solved, but I'd get it re-tested elsewhere at your friendly tester.

Go thorough the failure sheelt with a fine tooth comb and start deducting costs from £800, point these out then pull out your wallet and hopefully the cash in front of them may secure a sale.

You have nothing to loose by trying it on. The seller certianly is with his staring price.

At worst a 2.8 for £500 can be broken and sold for a lot more. Advertised on a landy forum the engine may fetch that alone. (can I have first dibs on the alternator & turbo if you do )

[Drift]

Just had a new screen fitted today, £134 inc vat

[Gazeddy]

i got pulled for number plate being obscured by tow ball. never got a mention at mot time.

[hipo1024]

Well Ive just got back from looking at that LWB and well....not very inpressed tbh. The engine sounds nice and smooth but felt gutless... I gunned it in 2nd from about 1100rpm all the way to the red line (aprox. 4200 rpm) and never felt any hint of the turbo kicking in, also took a age to build the revs. Ive driven gregs 2.8 lwb monster truck, ok it was only about 1/4 mile down the road but that felt alot more torquey even with 33's on. And Jims 2.8 shorty around the woods felt alot more gutsy too so not sure whats wrong with it or if that 188k miles has just taken its toll on the thing but somthing isnt right...made my dti feel like a focus ST lol.

The engine bay was coated with more oil than my dti lol which apparently was due to having had the wrong oil filler cap fitted....hmmm maybe?? And the rear output of the transfer box looks like it needs a new seal, and the rear prop can be turned aprox. 1/6th of a turn with the handbrake on....seems like alot of play to me, and a matching clunck when you lift off the gas so Im guessing the rear diff is heverly worn?

But on the plus side the body work is in near perfect order apart from the odd rust bubble on the doors. Here are some pics of it...










Oh and does anyone know what this thing is attached to the side of the exhaust?? it looks like it has a vac pipe going to it??


And the MOT fail sheet....
http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx18 ... 154809.jpg - full size image so you can read it

Other than whats on the MOT sheet things I think need fixing on it are...
Windows - all of them have problems of some kind.
At idle the oil presure gauge flaps all over the shot, but shoots to just above the max mark if u rev it slightly, the battery gauage sits at half at idle and again goes up to about 3/4 if you rev it slightly - Idle seems to be about 550-600 rpm so speeding up the idle to about 650-700 might solve that problem.
Turbo seems to have little to no effect
Oil EVERYWERE - yes i checked the dipstick 1st and it was on the min mark
Rear prop/diff seems to have alot of play
transfer box rear output oil leak
most of the exhaust mounting bolts are loose
Windcreen has a crack about 1ft long - needs a new screen
as it says on the MOT needs 2 new lower ball joints
Rear tyres are as good as f*cked
about 1/8th of a turn of play in the stearing
Bulk head needs welding because the clutch pedal doesnt come up all the way on its own and the clutch bite point is about 1cm off the floor.
Fuel tank guard is rusted thru

And she doesnt want to let it go for much less than about £800 LOL

So what would u experts say the repair bill would be all in?? - gives me some ammo to go with if its even slightly worth a sniff at.

[Drift]

You did the right thing at that price.
The oil is very likely seeping from the bottom sump cover, I had this issue and tightened all the 8mm (think) bolts up, stopped the leak, though now have to waxoil if for rust protection
The turbo on the 2.8 wont kick in until about 1800 revs but sounds like that may be leaking at one of the intercooler pipes or intake piping.
Also may need a fuel filter change.

The prop on the 2.8 doea have a good movement and what you explained sounds normal

Transfer box only has a forward seal to the front axle so I think you mean the gearbox to the rear prop, that's and easy job and cost under a tenner.

As for the rest its a pig

£400 tops I would say for a project

[stretch]

Jeez that's some list mate, £800 is she mad? Is it her car? As she doesn't seem to know a lot about it etc. My DTI feels quicker than the 2.8 not sure if it is. Or just beause its more refined.

One hell of a spanner party would probably sort out most bits on it but you would have to get a few 100 off the price. Looking around £300-£400

[Drift]

The DTI is quicker than the 2.8 and more refined but a hell of a lot more complicated

[RatCav]

I would walk away to be honest if I were you Dan. You need to find yourself a truck you can just get in and drive. £800 is a lot of money that needs a good £300-400 spent on it to get a ticket.

[Dannyboy]

There seem to be a few on ebay at the min so there are better options tbh mate

[hipo1024]

trouble is apart from this one blackpool I think is the next closest 2.8....and well Im not going all that way to just find out its a lemmon....then of course Ill have to sell mine before I can afford to buy it anyways....so Ive got to find someone that'l take a deposit and hold it untill the dti has gone....so given that this is a 20min drive from me its got that bonus.

@drift I couldnt hear the turbo leaking...infact I couldnt hear the turbo at all. admittedly I couldnt open the windows but still.

She said if it doesnt sell then she'll put it back on eBay and try again...if that still turns out dead then I'll drag someone with me (pref one of the local 2.8 owners off here) and see is we can talk some harsh reality into her . But for now looks like Ive got to retax the dti