More bad press

[FUDDY MUCKER]

remember when TOR is placed on a lane other user such as horses can not use the lane either.

Well you learn something everyday. Ithought it was just motorised vehicles.

Does that include everything, ramblers, mountain bikers ?????

[Drift]

No ramblers have the right to roam, horses are stopped for safety reasons depending on the reason for the TRO and a TRO goes for trail riders as well

Mountain bikes I think do not count, will need to check that out.

[FUDDY MUCKER]

No ramblers have the right to roam.

I thought the new Right Of Access law, covered Ramblers, and the fact that they can basically "Go Anywhere" ????

[Drift]

Yup, thats what I meant, they have the right to roam, badly written

http://www.ramblers.org.uk/freedom

[FUDDY MUCKER]

BLOODY RAMBLERS !!!!

I remember some time ago, Maddonna having a battle with the woolly hat brigade cos they where rambling on her estate using an accient, long forgotten foot path, that as far as anyone could remember had not been used or even listed on any map for decades.

Then one smart asre rambler finds the path on an internet website, realises who the land belongs to, tell all his mate and then on a daily basis, has hoards of knobs wander right past Madonna's windows to her mansion ..........

She took the local council to court, Yes, you guessed it, in court SHE LOST !!!!!

[Drift]

The thing is though, thats exactly what we do when we find an old unused lane

[FUDDY MUCKER]

So basically, if the council cant stop ramblers using accient paths or right of ways, then what right have they got to stop us using those same accient lanes in our 4x4's ????

Surley there must be some legal and political debate there ????????

[Drift]

To save me a lot of typing its all contained in these link about the NERC Bill

http://www.glass-uk.org/index.php?optio ... temid=1186

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 006023.htm

Though some lanes are under dispute at the moment.

[Roo]

Wasn't that guy on the bike, just going anywhere, not keeping to the lanes and that is why he got charged and his bike crushed?

Sorry if I have got it wrong

[furio]

Wasn't that guy on the bike, just going anywhere, not keeping to the lanes and that is why he got charged and his bike crushed?

Sorry if I have got it wrong

Thats as far as I understand it Roo, and am familiar with the area they are talking about, the point is the whole report was completely anti 4x4 / bike and implied any use of motorised vehicles in the countryside is "dangerous and illegal". It is this implication that annoys me and the fact that joe public should telephone a hotline to report any "illegal" activity. So what happens when they report (possibly one of us) for driving a lane which is perfectly legal leading to pc plod waiting at the end of said lane or on my doorstep. Sadly as with firearms law, I do not have the faith in the police to know whether the lane is legal or not. This is just one reason for joining Crag or glass, some kind of backup and access to trailwise and area reps who can give you a reasonably definitive answer as to whether a lane is 100% legal or not. These groups are fighting for our rights as responsible laners and therefore to me as a lane user they require my (our) support to continue to do so.

[jammywagonwheel]

Report this postReply with quoteRe: More bad press
by furio on Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:52 pm

http://www.north-wales.police.uk/nwpv2/ ... d=PR377454

More here.Someone mention laning? Just tell me when and where!

Erm.. I Just read this article and had a look at the picture in the top right of their page of the valliant crusaders against the "wanton distruction by Blitzkrieg Bikers". Ive copied it to my desktop (right click - save target as...) and had a look at it.. here it is a bit bigger than the version on the website...


Whats wrong with the picture???
They all have nice clean shoes... ?
Nope, but they do, so they have either flown in by helicopter, or driven there.. or have all brought clean shoes with them... Hmmm - or not

They all look very efficient and dynamic (in a pro acive way) scanning the horizon for 'LAW-BREAKERS'??
Could be...

The 4X4 neo nazi brigade have invaded and the rampaging thug motorcyclists recklessly tearing around...?
Close... getting warmer..

The churned up path???
Bingo... thats where the offences took place.. look at it.. its all rutted and knackered, ruined by all those beastly 4x4's and bikes, not by the walkers!

Look again.. If you notice, the "ruts" have snow in them.. and are V shaped in cross section, NOT square bottomed (like a tyre track?) and they are not parralel, then again, not actually straight.. the damage is caused by..... ready... 10 points to the first correct answer out of this hat...

Water run off... Probably from the melting snow...
and theres a nice fence in the background in the top right hand corner (THE CAR PARK) which means this is a heavily TRODDEN path.
Its also the middle of winter which by default means that things tend to slow down their growth.. and as such they take longer to recover.

The photo is from the Horseshoe Pass, Llangollen.. see here... http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=horseshoe+pass+llangollen&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADFA_en&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Horseshoe+Pass,+Llangollen,+Clwyd+LL20&gl=uk&ei=tcWLS-OeN9i4jAeJicHXDA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQ8gEwAA, this is from Google maps.. Very Scenic (which it is,).. even down to the 2 Quarries within 1/2 mile of the pass itself, erm.. how is the quarried material extracted? Will power?

Grrrr.
We are law abiding people going around doing LEGALLY what we do, Why should we roll over because some furry toothed, lentil munching sandal wearing member of the windcheeta brigade says stop.. Surely they should Stop the pedestrians (the worst litterers I might add), Horses, tourists, sheep, dogs, Goats (Snowdon), mountain bikers, pushchairs etc from using it as well? shut down the Lake district, scotland, the penines etc to ALL forms of traffic, if its not tarmac'd, its not legal - and see what happens. If that were to happen, I will quite happily stop greenlaning, off roading or dragging their cars out of ditches next time it snows, The Paths - Bridleways are by their very name - a PUBLIC right of way and should be open to all - not a chosen few.

I will quite happily pay for a permit which can be prominately displayed in the front / rear of my vehicle so should anyone have an issue and "takes a picture on a mobile phone" and reports me to the police - The permit will be clearly visable. My MOT / TAX & Insurance is all up to date, more than can be said for any of the other users... Mountain Bikers especially.. try around Beddgelert / Betws-y-Coed, LLanberis pass in the summer.. its lethal!

Rant over...
John

[furio]

Some interesting observations there jammywagonwheel! That same article does at least acknowledge the use of greenlanes :

Nick Critchley added: “There is a network of roads suitable for road-legal off-road capable vehicles and this information can be found on Ordnance Survey maps and through local authorities.

I guess it goes back to the age old mantra "stick to the ROW".

[Frenchfarmer]

Stick loads of tacky pictures of pheasants and deer all over your motor.
Wear waxed cotton jackets and have a Black AND a Golden Labrador in the back.
Put some red lipstick smears on the children's cheeks.
They'll think you are a load of toffs out hunting and say nothing.
You might be rich landowners.
Even better; hang a stuffed fox or deer over the bull bar.
I'm only sarcastic while I'm awake.
Usually from 10am till late.
Above all remember that some of the people who own the land have worked really hard to be able to own or lease the land and are trying hard to make a living despite all the rule and regulations and FFFFFFng paperwork just so that the Supermarkets can stitch them up.
One third for the farm/business, one third for the government and the rest for accountants and a bite to eat.

[yaki]

I've seriously been considering investing in a RoadHawk, should solve any problem with getting accused of illegal behavior

What is really motivating me is last year I was involved in an accident with a 12 year old Disco, I stopped and he didn't and took out his front wing and drivers door before stopping. Then the plonker pops it into first and drives on taking out the rear door and wing

Only damage to mine was a dented bumper end cap and side light. Had a letter off the insurance few weeks back and as it was a narrow road with no road markings plus no independent witness they have gone 50:50 on the repair bills.

My bill £0-00 as I didn't bother claiming

His bill was £19,000 and my insurance is paying half of it

If I had a Roadhawk it would be a no brainer and the plonker wouldn't have a leg to stand on plus it would cover my butt as to any accusations of illegal laning

[Frenchfarmer]

BLOODY RAMBLERS !!!!

I remember some time ago, Maddonna having a battle with the woolly hat brigade cos they where rambling on her estate using an accient, long forgotten foot path, that as far as anyone could remember had not been used or even listed on any map for decades.

Then one smart asre rambler finds the path on an internet website, realises who the land belongs to, tell all his mate and then on a daily basis, has hoards of knobs wander right past Madonna's windows to her mansion ..........

She took the local council to court, Yes, you guessed it, in court SHE LOST !!!!!

Most Ramblers are Townies.
Imagine if you tried to walk through their garden.
Just like the townies round here who think that because it is Christmas they can walk onto our land and cut Holly for them and their neighbours. " I know this place where there's lots of it so don't bother buying any"

Now I know none of the Foggers have this attitude.
Ok if it is hanging over into the public lane/ right of way then it is acceptable to take just enough for your own decorations. If it is for commercial sale or for gifts to neighbours then it is theft.
I defend the rights of way but not the right to treat the countryside like it is something that the government maintains for the pleasure of the city dwelling tax payers. It is the local council that has to maintain the rights of way but it is city dwellers who trash them but call it a free day out while wearing hundreds of pounds worth of (made in far eastern child labour sweat shops ) sweaters that have "freedom to roam" written on them. How much "freedom to roam" do the poor folk who make them have?
But where do the local councils get their funding? From the local rate payer.