More bad press

[furio]

http://www.itv.com/wales/motorbike-menace48409/

If I was Joe Public, it would seem to me that greenlaning is now illegal. An awful piece of media bull$h*t.

[Road Hog]

As ever it is the minority that mess it up for the majority

[FUDDY MUCKER]

It's now got the the point it just is'nt worth going out and enjoying greenlaning.

TOR's, Lack if Council information, Abusive Public, BullS*it Stories like that encouraging "REPORTING" of illegal vehicle, Fuel Costs etc, etc .....

I think we have all got to agree, it's only a matter of time before the end is in sight for Greenlaning.

I mean, how do you stand if "JOE NOSEY TAWT, TREE HUGGING, ASREHOLE RAMBLER" is out there on the hills with his woolly hat and knee length socks on, decides to take a disliking to the fact that you are using a 4x4 on a legal greenlane.

He takes down you registration number, maybe even a mobile phone camera picture, THEN reports that you where actually on another ILLEGAL lane some where.

RAMBLER 1 - 0 GREENLANER

How do you prove otherwise ??????

Unfortunately, as far as I'm concerned thats my Greenlaning days finished. Just not worth the hassle or grief.

The only "SAFE" place to enjoy the benefits of your 4x4 is on an authorised Pay & Play site.

Might Just have to buy myself a WOOLLY HAT AND KNEE LENGTH SOCKS !!!!!

[furio]

I know how you feel Jase. How does the rambler or whoever know whether your on a legal lane or not? We all do our best to research the lanes we drive and try and make sure they are legal, but mr woolly hat probably won't know that. Its about time the council's came up with a proper national network of lanes open to us so everyone knows where they stand. Its all very well saying they have no money in the budget for signs etc blah blah blah, but they seem to have enough to mark footpaths and fancy new cycleways etc. Half the time I never see another soul apart from laners out on the tracks anyway. I wonder what the average laner can do to protect themselves?

[FUDDY MUCKER]

. I wonder what the average laner can do to protect themselves?

Unfortunatley mate, NOTHING !!!!

It's us against them.

We wreck the country side with our heavy truck and chunck tyres, while they just walk gently over the wandering hills !!!



Dont get me wrong, ramblers, cycilsts, horse riders etc, all have a right to enjoy the same counrtyside as we do, but like everything else in this country, you own, drive or use a vehicle, your a sitting target for the authorities !!!!

[Drift]

Why not fight back and support the groups trying to change that perception?

You could start here

http://www.treadlightly-uk.org/index.ph ... e&Itemid=1

I have to be honest I have only encountered a hand full of problems laning in comparison to the amount of miles Ive done, Ive seen plenty of damage, its up to us to regulate ourselves and change the perception.

Treadlightly! Set to change the landscape of Green Laning. PDF Print E-mail
Treadlightly! set to change the landscape for Greenlaning.

CRAG has joined with The Green Lane Association and The Trail Riders Federation in setting up The Treadlightly Trust, a Registered Charity which aims to make trail riding and driving more socially acceptable by educating users to be more environmentally aware.

The Treadlightly! scheme which is supported by the Countryside Council for Wales and other countryside oriented agencies is being adapted from an education programme started in the United States nearly 25 years ago. Treadlightly! was originally set up by the US Forest Service to combat some of the environmental issues caused by illegal and insensitive off road activity.

Greenlaning or Trailriding as a hobby has been growing in the UK over the past ten years whilst the network of routes that can be legally driven has been declining, primarily as a consequence of the implementation of the CROW and NERC legislation. Many of the routes are poorly signed and location information difficult to obtain. This has lead to some users going ‘off piste’ leading to conflict with landowners and other users and creating problems for Highways Authorities.

A proportion of users are unclear as to where they are permitted to drive and what is acceptable behaviour. The Treadlightly! programme sets out to educate these users by publishing Good Practice guidelines, providing online training resources, visiting motorcycle and 4x4 clubs and generally persuading all users to modify their behaviour and act in a more environmentally sensitive manner.

The Treadlightly! programme is primarily aimed at ‘Greenlaners’ who use their 4x4 vehicles and motorcycles to explore often ancient unsurfaced byways and roads which are perfectly legal routes generally open to all traffic. Due to the closures and restrictions created by the recent legislation, the remaining routes are often experiencing increased usage but are generally de-prioritised by Highways Authorities for repair and maintenance.

Treadlightly! aims to build a network of volunteers and equip them with the skills and equipment required to undertake ongoing maintenance and restoration of these routes in partnership with local authorities and environmental groups.

The Treadlightly Trust, a registered charity plans to work in partnership with Government Agencies, Local and National Park Authorities, Suppliers, User Groups, Local Clubs and Individuals to deliver the programme. The Trust aims to raise funds through Corporate Sponsorship, Charitable Donations , Grants and a Membership programme.

The founding organisations of Treadlightly! are The Greenlane Association (GLASS), The Countryside Recreational Access Group (CRAG) and The Trail Riders Fellowship (TRF). These Groups already represent responsible users, have codes of conduct, and organise voluntary repairs. However, they recognise that a single body based on the US experience would be better equipped and more capable of achieving their collective objectives.

Treadlightly! stress that they do not anticipate any significant increase in activity as a consequence of their programme, the expectation is that users will become better informed and act more responsibly due to their improved environmental awareness. This should lead to less conflict in the countryside and a general improvement in the condition of the usable routes.

For more information regarding Treadlightly! please go to:

www.treadlightly-uk.org
www.treadlightly.org

http://www.treadlightly-uk.org/index.ph ... 4&Itemid=2

[FUDDY MUCKER]

its up to us to regulate ourselves and change the perception.

I agree, but its like A friend says "THE MINORITY" who cause the problems, so why should that "MINORITY" change there attiude and do anything about it.

If they had any sort of compassion for the countryside to start with, then they would'nt fall into the "MINORITY"

Yes, you've got groups out there such as "GLASS" and "CRAG" who have been running for quite a few years now, but what hope have they got against everyone else.

There input has not stopped the amount of greenlanes we can use getting less and less as the years go on. There input has'nt changed "JOE PUBLICS" preception of 4x4 use in the country side. There input has'nt influenced the government in any way, shape or form !!!

So where do we go, and what can we do.

Basically Nothing, just backed into a corner as usually.

[furio]

http://www.north-wales.police.uk/nwpv2/ ... d=PR377454

More here.

[4x4 bobby]

Can see your point Jase they dont like the English in Wales anyway so were an easy target even if were not doing any damage. The minority are as reported a lot of unlicenced motorcycle's the rest are just idiots. I dont think i will be greenlaning in Wales again i would like to do the Buxton area again though.

[FUDDY MUCKER]

I dont think i will be greenlaning in Wales again i would like to do the Buxton area again though.

Me too. Wales will defiantely be a miss for me as from now on.

At least we are quite lucky to have so much greenlaning within 20 miles of where we live.

And quite alot of you lads live within that 20 miles, so gathering information, meeting up etc is quite easy.

And as we are local, you do tend to meet and greet a few more like minded 4x4'ers while you are out in and around the Buxton area, who will give local knowledge on TOR's, disputes etc.

And also, Derbyshire council Rights of Way Department, are quite obliging and usually on the ball with there information.

And the local Rural Police are usually pleasant and friendly, and will spend time talking to you and advising on any issues in and around the area.

[furio]

Am up for Buxton, reasonably local for me.

[andysd1]

sorry guys, but you have to understand one thing, we are a responsible group, and as long as we keep it that way, we will still have some fight left in us, just because of some bad press, does not mean giving up on a hobby or love, and avoiding the area, just gives them more power, we are the type of group that can change peoples minds, we could always organise a open day, where we get a few 4x4 in one place and invite the locals and councils and police to come and look at what we are and what we do,

[Drift]

Yes, you've got groups out there such as "GLASS" and "CRAG" who have been running for quite a few years now, but what hope have they got against everyone else.

These groups have no hope of achieving anything if the 4x4 community do not get behind them and back them up, can we all say how many of us had had input to support these groups? no many I imagine.

There input has not stopped the amount of greenlanes we can use getting less and less as the years go on. There input has'nt changed "JOE PUBLICS" preception of 4x4 use in the country side. There input has'nt influenced the government in any way, shape or form !!!

On the contrary the TRF with GLASS have just won a high court battle over lane down South, also CRAG and GLASS have kept many many lanes open by volunteering maintainace and labour to repair and restore lanes all over the country, CRAG have many ongoing at the moment in Shropshire and Wales, they make a huge difference as the Local councils who own these lanes can shut them with permanent TOR's if they deem the maintenance bill to high.
CRAG also get involve with local Police forces in South and North Wales to help educate 4x4 drivers on the most popular routes and this has proved very successful over the last 12 months.
It is not the Government that close the lanes now its the local councils and they are mainly closed due to maintenance issues or residents complaining, the afore mentioned groups do everything to address the issues when a council publish a TOR, a classic example was Alt y Badie this was the subject of many complaints and needed major work and was closed for a year, but lobbying the council got the repairs done and the lane is now open. open

So where do we go, and what can we do.

Ask yourselves as individuals " What have you done"

[FUDDY MUCKER]

Dont get me wrong Drifty, I applaud all the work Crag & Glass have done over the years. I've also had the privledge to speak to one of two of the groups of volunteers who carry out these repairs whislt I've been out laning.

My point been, there is the minorty who cause the damage, we are also a minority who use our 4x4's to cover the country side in an hobby we enjoy.

The majority are the one's that oppose us !!!

A tad off topic but, Take the Hunting ban for instance, Hundreds of years, man has been hunting, living off the country side.

Then the government had feedback off a few different "do gooder" group saying ..........

millions wanted the ban ......

The reality was .....
Hundreds of thousands opposed the ban .........
Thousands of people, families and Businesses needed hunting, to live and survive in the way they have for many generations .....
Hundreds of people went under !!!!!!!
Sadly, many took there on way out !!!

All because of a few "DO GOODERS" and the Government seeking votes at the next election.

Like i said, little armys DONT win big wars !!!!

Been realistic is the easy bit.

[Drift]

We wouldnt be so little if everyone who complained of loosing lanes made some small effort to conserve the lanes.
Education and effective policing are the only routes to take, should you be reported by an over zealous walker or resident and you are not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to fear.

Lets get rational here most of the general public couldnt give two sh#ts what goes on on green lanes

[FUDDY MUCKER]

Lets get rational here most of the general public couldnt give two sh#ts what goes on on green lanes

I agree again most people would not know what a lane was.

And as far as i'm aware, all the members on this forum who do partake in greenlaning do follow the unwritten rules and respect the country side.

So you say, eduction is the answer. Well I would say, we as a group are already educated, but we still see bias reports like this popping up from time to time. And yes, the dont pop up too often, but when they do, it's the ones that complain who always seems to make the headlines. Not the people on the other side of the fence like us.

[Drift]

A few good reports....and thats from the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/stoke/hi/pe ... 461513.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfo ... 448516.stm

http://sain.sunsite.utk.edu/cgi-bin/tex ... artcontent

http://bbcsurreybreakfastblog.blogspot. ... -here.html

From small steps

[john (smifffy)]

it seems strange that in the TV clip they have a chopper following the bike
which don't seem to have numberplate on rear so is not road legal
saying it illegal to drive up there
but then send one of there 4x4 up there to get him causing so called more damage

[furio]

Well I'm in the process of signing up with CRAG, and am not going to stop laning up there. Does tend to take the shine off things though. I'm presuming that the area they are most concerned about is the illegal off roading around the "3 peaks" not far from Conquering Hero rather than folk on actual row's.

[Drift]

North Wales Police use the chopper when it just happens to be in the area, the will not send it out to monitor the lanes or police them specifically.
I have seen the police on the lanes more and more recently and it has been working around the Corwen area.

No one is says stop using the lanes, in fact quite the opposite we either use them or we will looses them.
Lanes will deteriorate and those that do we volunteer not to use until either one of the groups fix it or the council sort it, remember when TOR is placed on a lane other user such as horses can not use the lane either.