Guinness World Record Attempt - Discussion

[furball]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the national papers charge for adverts? Can we get a freebie ad if we say it's for charity?

[madchef]

Glad you brought that one up Furball.

Local news groups should not charge if we state it's for charity,nationals probably wouldn't be bothered unless they have a motor feature in their paper.Lack of time has meant I have not had chance to get it done but you can find all local & nationals on the net to mail them so if anybody wants a go please feel free.

The News of the World has a Sunday motors article who was going to mail but as said been too busy working.

Will also be the same for Radio stations and Television.Finding how to get in touch is a night mare though especially the BBC site.20 mins going round in circles.

Hope that helps

[furball]

Speaking of radio, I was thinking Radio 2 traffic girls might be a good idea. Lynne Bowles is famously a Land Rover girl, but Sally Traffic does things like this all the time. We might even get someone interviewed on Drivetime (not me though cos I'm shy ).

[Tom Mc]

I think you may have misinterpreted the guidlines. This is copied from the pdf sent to me from GWR and i have rang and spoke to them to clarify.....

"2 - The minimum distance of the parade must be 3.2 km (2 miles) from the starting
point to the finish (all cars must cross the start line and drive the length of the
route to the finish line).
3 - If a car cannot complete the route, that car must be deducted from the total
count.
4 - The column of cars must be continuous. As a general guide, the cars should not
be more than two car-lengths apart during the parade."

this means that the actual route the parade takes must be a minimum of 2 miles, not the length of the convoy.

Right, you say you've spoken to GWR. That's amazing in itself as they used to be uncontactable, perhaps times have changed. So obviously both GWR and yourselves as Organisers must now be 100% certain of the rules, but what I don't get is ...

Since when have the words - "The minimum distance of the parade must be 3.2 km (2 miles) from the starting point to the finish" (GWR's quote) meant

"the actual route the parade takes must be a minimum of 2 miles, not the length of the convoy". (bobbinsjob' quote)

or

"The convoy/parade has to travel 2 miles, not be 2 miles". (furball's quote)

Surely the convoy has to be be at least 2 miles long or it would not be able to travel the 2 mile route from the start line to the finish line as in GWR's rules - "The column of cars must be continuous". Obviously the column of vehicles can be 2, 3 or 4 miles long, but it has to be a minimum of 2 miles long to continiously drive the 2 mile route!

It's easy to work it out - I think! Don't want to appear condescending, but I'm going to break it down to real basic talk for my sake as much as yours, so please bear with me. Let's assume for a moment that FOG could only muster 50 vehicles on the day, and that convoy of vehicles for arguement's sake measures exactly half a mile long. So, as that 1/2 mile convoy approaches the start line of the 2 mile route (the route length as stated by bobbinsjob) they cross the start line and travel along the 2 mile route. What happens? When the last vehicle of your 1/2 convoy crosses the start line, the gap between the front of the lead vehicle and the finish line would 1 1/2 miles (remember the convoy cannot stretch itself as there must be no more than two vehicle lengths between the partcipating vehicles), therefore the record claim would be rejected by GWR. Why? Because "The minimum distance of the parade must be 3.2 km (2 miles) from the starting point to the finish" as stated by GWR ... as I've said all along! If the parade is only 1/2 mile long then that's it, game over!

Again, I fully realise that it's stating the obvious (sorry) but I'll say it anyway - I would suggest you need to calculate how many Frontera's @ two vehicle lengths apart it will take to create a convoy 2 miles long (the minimum required) then ideally add a few more on top for good measure. Just off the top of my head, I seem to remember calculating that it would take approx. 230 Land Rovers to establish a new record, bearing in mind that their wheelbases alone can measure from 80 inch to 130 inch (that's without going into 6x6 territory!!!) plus the overhangs front and rear of course. Yes it gets complicated. Fortunately with a total of 260 vehicles it was beyond all doubt, reasonable or otherwise, so GWR didn't have to quite literally 'get the tape measure out'. Let's hope the same is true of your attempt.

One last thing. If the parade does have to be 2 miles long, I therefore pose the same question as previously - how on earth did only 107 BMW's set a record when their combined length, even with a distance of no more than two vehicles apart, does not measure a length of 2 miles?

Your turn to interpret the rules gentlemen!

[gregster]

Hiya,
In response to Tom Mc's comments

I think it means that to have the column of cars (no matter how long) have to be close together ie 2 cars lengths apart, and then this column must cover a 2 mile parade, which will finish when the last car crosses the 2 mile mark.

It makes sense to me that the cars have to be close together and without interruption, other wise the GWR for this would have gone to all the ford mondeo's on a 2 mile stretch of the M25! (if you could find a bit of it that's moving for 2 miles!)

I dont think that the cars have to form a 2 mile long loop to be continuous as this would be difficult then to measure (if all cars the looked same or similar-ferrari club record for example) and would be difficult to then find a loop of road that is 2 miles long exactly.

The whole idea I think is to have a line of as many of the same car as possible, with them close(ish), together that they form a distinct line,hence continuous, and then all covering the measured distance as a convoy.

One idea I had was why drive down the track, if we could drive on the grass next to it and get the record for biggest off-road convoy of same marque vehicles??
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This next bit isn't meant to upset or offend anyone with regards to this GWR attempt
( I fully respect the amount of hard work that has clearly gone it to organising it),
I am just expressing a different point of view...

My personal opinion is that this gwr attempt is a bit of a nonsence (again-no offence intended),in as much as this record is only for the largest number of fronteras in a convoy.....
This is a kind of"nothing" record really...if 10 turn up then it will be a record because no one has done it before or would want to in the future.

I can understand it from a jeep, toyota or landrover club perspective as there are so many clubs that specialise in these marques, in so many different countries, that you would be in direct competition with, wheras the humble frontera (which I think was only sold as "frontera" in the uk anyway) has only the one club really (us) and no competition for the record.

I really believe in my fronties, and fully support the other enthusiasts in this group who enjoy their fronty's, but I would far sooner the record attempt was for something that took on the 4x4 world head on, and showed what we can do as a group, and made our brand and vehicle stand out above the rest
-a huge statement for the much ridiculed frontera in other 4x4 circles.
If we could set a record that then the LR or yota boys could then beat, and then we could retake, then surely this is more competition, and what the GWR is all about.

I cant help feeling that this who attempt is a bit like someone, with a really unusual surname, setting a world record for the greatest number of people with that same unusual surname in one building at one time....could be set when when having their family christmas dinner- unchallengeable, so no competition- and hence not really in the true spirit of world records.

You might all think I am a bit mad....-but if we wanted to do something really crazy like the GWR longest 4x4 jump or best time up ben nevis, then count me in, my workshop,my hols from work and we will do it as a group...and get some real records for FOG.
i would even donate the vehicle and drive(-so long as I got to make my own roll cage!no offence again!)
At least this sort of thing would be a proper challengeable record, which we could then enjoy the future challenges to it and then us recapturing as neccesary.

Look I am wittering on.....
I will support you fellow foggers on this GWR attempt (work and vehicle permitting!) but I really think we are selling ourselves (and our frontys) short on this venture-
I have always enjoyed having the perceived "underdog" vehicle and then producing excellent results- making people sit up and look at someone who has broken the mould and done something different,and made it work.....
lets change other 4x4 owners perception in a challengeable way, by showing the world what our trusty frontys can really do, not just that they can queue up in a long line (like doing the school run), which ,most other 4x4 groups will swear,is all that our frontys are only good for!!

Laters

Gregster

[Drift]

I see your point Greg but the whole GWRA is for charity, not to have a compatition but to get together for a friendly social and raise money for charity, by no means is it a competitive event, if 10 Fronteras turn up it doesnt matter as long as the charities get some money

But somehow I think there will be more that 10

[furball]

Tom

It says the distance of the parade should be 2 miles, not the length of the parade. It's a small, but important difference.

If nothing else, as you yourself have pointed out, there is no way a convoy of 107 BMWs totals 2 miles in length, and yet this is a valid record, so the only answer that can possibly be right is that the 2 mile thing is the length of the course (in other words the distance the convoy must traverse for the record to be valid) and not the length of the convoy (that being the length from the front of the first vehicle to the back of the last vehicle).

The bit that's confusing me at the moment is that we have been told it should be a single coloumn, and yet the pictures on the Guinness website for the largest parade of Mazdas and Ferraris shows them travelling several abreast?

[Tom Mc]

The total 'distance' as opposed to the 'length' of the convoy. Mmmmm. Gota get my head around this. Makes some sort of sense, but after a bottle of 14% Aussie Shiraz dunno if this is trhe right time ... sleep on it!

[bobbinsjob]

OK, let's see if I can clear a few things up. I think the whole "2 mile thing" is sorted and understood now. As for the Mazdas being 2 abreast, the only explanations i can think of is that either the photograph was taken before or after the actual record attempt in a sort of formation lap, or, if the oval track they were doing the record on was less than 2 miles long then they would have to over lap at the track's start/finish line so keeping a continuous convoy for the prescribed 2 mile route in a sort of spiral. (think i explained that right, it sounded ok in my head )The MR2 club's attempt at Rockingham was invalidated because they were 3 abreast even though they had 353 cars. The problem was, they used rockingham oval circuit which is 1.89 miles long and thought they would be ok to just bunch up, which is why i have stipulated and had it agreed with rockingham, (cause they DID ask) that we must be single file and cover a minimum distance of 2 miles so we will be allowed to use the infield track aswel

To Gregster, when we do set the record, it will be totally breakable and not just by ourselves. The title of the record is "Longest Parade of Vauxhall Cars", so it could be broken next year by the Calibra club or the astra club (if their is one). the record could even be set by one of them before we get to do it!
I tried to go for "most 4x4 vehicles" but was informed by GWR that it is not a valid category and would not be recognised. Unfortunately you cant just say, "I'm going to set a new world record" for anything, it takes a lot of red tape and correspondence to get a claim agreed and sometimes just the way a request is worded can result in a rejection. And I hope you can make it Greg, especially with the big yellow beastie

"CONTINUOUS", this means that the convoy of same make vehicle must not be interupted by any other make of vehicle, eg. if we had say 240 fronteras in the convoy but number 120 was a OPEL Frontera and number 190 was a HOLDEN Frontera, then only the first 119 VAUXHALL Fronteras would count towards the record. Like I said before, any member that has a frontera that is NOT a Vauxhall is more than welcome to take part in the convoy but they would have to be at the back of the convoy. This is because, even though they are all Fronteras and are all made under the parent company (GM), they have to be Vauxhall and that is why GWR need the reg number of every vehicle taking part because then, marques can be verified.

Hope this puts a few things to bed

[john boy]

Ok we now know the rules on the length of the lap but does anyone know the min distance between the vehicles and is there a max and how do they measure it as the convoy is moving

[Silver Ghost]

Ok we now know the rules on the length of the lap but does anyone know the min distance between the vehicles and is there a max and how do they measure it as the convoy is moving

I dont think the minimum distance is going to be a problem here, as its on a track and we will be a parade to call it that. i do understand that the GWR powers that be will have one.

So to overcome this and to stop peeps wondering, am i close enough or too far apart...we sould just adopt the 2 second rule which we all know as drivers, thats the minimum distance you should be behind any car in front.

using this system, each car can judge his own distance, and not have to worry, as im sure that would fall into GWR's rules.

also using this method, based on the first car to leave, and working 2 seconds from his speed, we will all have the same distance apart, and im sure that will look good at the end of the day, as all gaps between cars would be to the naked eye about the same.

sean

[bobbinsjob]

there is no deffinate minimum or maximum. The rules say that as a general guide, there should be no more than 2 car lengths between each car.

Sean's idea should work fine

[Red Oktober]

or .....

tie all the cars together with rope ....but keep the rope slack so it won't look like your being towed

[Icemahn]

Hi all,

I was in one of the MR2's that went for the GWR attemt in Rockingham. As far as I know, they are setting a new date due to the record being invalidated. One reason was, we ran as a single file, which was wrong. We should have been running abreast 3 cars a row for 2 laps and a bit in rockingham to get the record. We did start with 3 but went into shambles in the end.

I think it was not only for the record. Before the actual attempt we had a couple of hours to meet other members, look at the cars, pictures and shared few ideas, in the end it was like a big meet.

I think we should all be in there.

[brachunky]

I think we should all be in there.

Is it possible to send reminder emails to all FOG members to help keep & maintain the enthusiasm?

[Drift]

Yes its possible, we send them out every few months, they can get mistaken for topic reply notifications though and be ignored.

I think we should get one out towards the end of the month, we are Cochise not to spam peoples inbox.

[bobbinsjob]

I'll draft something up as soon as I get a bit of info I'm waiting for from Rockingham ref entrance fee and then will draw up an application form for members to fill in and post to me so that we dont break the GWR rules ie, reg numbers and phone numbers. Then maybe Pete, Ste or one of the other admin could bang it out

[Drift]

Sure no probs

[Silver Ghost]

There is only short time left to go, relatively speaking., can we get an update to how things are at the moment, what is needed, whats in place already.

and most of all what needs to be sorted out.

sean

[bobbinsjob]

on a course at the mo in liecester but am waiting for a reply from rockingham to finalise arrangements. when i get back I'll get my nose to the grindstone, promise