If not a Fronty, what else?

[MADMIFF]

So the Frontera is an endangered species now, no more are being made and those that are left are deterioating rapidly. The question is, what would you buy having owned one.

[jimmybhoy]

suppose it would come down to budget.
saving seen a few belters on holiday last month, am liking this bad bhoy. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-Jeep-Wra ... SwcF9UXN12

[RatCav]

Isuzu Trooper/Bighorn

[4x4 bobby]

My missus has just bought a 2003 Jeep Cherokee 2.5crd manual. What a fantastic vehicle. We tow trailers and you forget their on the back. Its strong robust and a pleasure to drive. If i could afford one it would be the Jeep Grand Cherokee 2.7crd. Its just that bit longer but still the same sort of drive. Now if i had unlimited funds it would be a Jeep Wrangler, their awsome!!!!!!!!!!
Regards Bobster

[gregster]

Trying not to picture you in your Daisy Duke outfit Bobster.....

[frontster]

I'm all depressed now, seeing as I've just bought my first.

[4x4 bobby]

Up your's Gregster
And you just bought your first what?

[frontster]

My first Frontera (in fact my first Vauxhall) and my first 4X4.

[4x4 bobby]

Your ok bud!!!! They are more than capable 4x4's fella. Ive owned frontera's for the last 16 years and they have always done what it say's on the tin!!!!!!!

[frontster]

Cheers Bobster, nice to know.

[Retro Pedro]

Pipe dream stuff, for me it would be a Toyota FJ. Only problem is that they are USA or Japanese markets, so for a right hand hooker it would have to be a Japanese import. My liking of these FJ's goes back to when I first saw some tricked up ones in California a couple of years back.
Feet on the ground, also thought the natural progression from a Fronty would have been a 3.0 Trooper, but the injector seals issues put me well off that one. So it will have to be my 2.8 SWB out living my off road days.

[RatCav]

I would avoid the 3.0 Trooper/Bighorn personally. Better option is the 3.1 TD or 3.2 V6 on LPG

[Retro Pedro]

I would avoid the 3.0 Trooper/Bighorn personally. Better option is the 3.1 TD or 3.2 V6 on LPG

Real shame that about the 3.0 Neal. Apparently a real good, refined powerful motor when they're running good but what I gleamed from the read ups is about the high pressure fuel injector system that blows the seals which is the root of the problem. Real off putting when you see the topics whereby guys have had the recalls, go it repaired only for the problem to reappear a tad down the line.

[RatCav]

The issues are:

1) Injectors on earlier vehicles. They are programmable to sync with the main ECU. They fail and stop injecting. It is an internal electronic fault, hence the individual injectors are irreparable (at the moment, as some people are investigating and looking for a solution). Isuzu still honour the free recall on this issue to fit the latest generation injectors which seem to have resolved the problem on the whole. If the truck has had the recall work done then you are on your own and have to fix it yourself. Possible for the average spanner monkey, but you will need a Tech 2 to program the new injector to the ECU.

2) Injector sleeves (shudder). The original sleeves have two o'rings on them. These o'rings separate the oil/coolant/diesel galleries on the common rail. It is a Caterpiller design that was incorrectly toleranced. It lead to the o'rings leaking diesel into the oil gallery. The diesel is under greater pressure at this point. The first time you notice is when the oil level rises. The oil gets thinner and the first thing to go is the seals in the turbo. The diesely oil then gets dragged through the air inlet system. Second and subsequent signs are the turbo starting to give notice as it isn't get the proper lubrication. Final notice is the seals totally going in the turbo. Clouds of smoke, but more dramatically the engine running away as it self fuels itself with the oil. Take the key out and it will still run until it seizes or pops a cog. You need a special tool to remove the sleeves. With that tool it isn't that difficult a job to do. Without that tool near on impossible. People have successfully made their own tools using an old sleeve to go by.

3) ORPS (Oil Rail Pressure Sensor) This reads the oil pressure. It relies on high oil pressure to start/run. The sensors have a tendency to fail. Can be diagnosed by cutting the "white wire". This kills the signal it needs. Without that it will allow the truck to start as it runs in a "limp mode". Fiddly but doable. You do need a Tech 2 to sync it with the ECU properly.

4) HPOP Valve (High Pressure Oil Pump). This opens and closes delivering oil. They stick shut. I reckon old cruddy oil due to lack of changes of the oil and both oil filters. My theory is the dirt scores and damages the internals of the HPOP Valve. When the oil pressure drops when you switch off the valve inside shuts and sticks preventing the truck from starting again. No oil, no oil pressure, engine isn't allowed to start. Fiddly but straight forward to change. No Tech 2 required.

5) Oil pickup pipe. It snaps off its mount plate and falls into the bottom of the sump. Guess what. No pickup, no oil. No oil, no oil pressure. No oil pressure, no start. Diagnosed by putting an extra 2 litres of oil in the engine. This lifts the level above the mount level so it can be drawn up and pressurised, allowing the engine to start. Possible to change with the engine sort of in situ.

This does sound like a nightmare, but in fairness with some knowledge and a Tech 2 it is a great engine. Many many people have these engines and they run fine all day every day. It is just when they go wrong it is a pain.

[johnkarl]

It would have to be first choice Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 4.7 with LPG conversion, ave 35 mpg equivalent, 217 bhp


Second choice would be a 2.8 pajero LWB as these run fine on used filtered cooking oil in the summer months [ May to end of September ]
equivalent to 80 mpg [ in summer ] 115 bhp


But that's just my choices, other people like other things, each to there own

[JEOH]

Sorry guys,

I am dreaming of a G-Wagon. The classic model, of course. Spares you don't worry where to get.

My wife"s sister owns a actual Wrangler. Messed around with water coming inside some month this summer. Do not know if it is sorted out now.

Nissan Patrol?

[Retro Pedro]

Well done Neal for the concise clear detailed write up on the 3.0 Trooper woes.
Coming back to topic, without these issue, for my money, the 3.0 Trooper would have been a good consideration.
Might stand corrected here, but I think they still have the steering box as opposed to a steering rack. In my opinion, stands up better to obuse from off roading. Potentially on the downside, believe they have the DMF as opposed to a solid flywheel.

[Shaggy]

Quite apt what with it being 'Back to the future day' on Wednesday but for me it would have to be Marty McFlys Toyota Hi-lux



Always loved that truck

[stretch]

Ever since i first saw back to the future i've always wanted that pick up.

[RatCav]

It would have to be first choice Jeep Grand Cherokee V8 4.7 with LPG conversion, ave 35 mpg equivalent, 217 bhp

I would never have an LPG powered Jeep. Partners brother had this exact model on LPG and had nothing but trouble with it. The ECU cannot cope with the flicking to LPG. It cannot handle the emissions when on LPG and gets all confused. Eventually it will log a fault code as it struggles to deal with it. Every few months he had to take it to a garage to have the codes cleared as it logged so many before self clearing it would refuse to run at all without being in "runs like a piece of poo" mode.

This is also the engine fitted to the Dodge Ram 1500. Dreadful engine. It has an inherant flaw where the water jacket in the head cracks. Only slightly better than the 2.2 16v for headgasket intervals.

Also I would never ever ever own another American truck again. Parts are a pain to get hold of. Everything just seems "lacking" in refinement. Just Urrgh.

Sorry guys,

I am dreaming of a G-Wagon. The classic model, of course. Spares you don't worry where to get.

Nissan Patrol?

Both of these are very very viable options JEOH.